# There's no diversity like liberal diversity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 31, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770 "2007-10-31T20:02:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/181 "2007-11-02T00:37:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You lump these two cases together, and they should not be. Sure they should. They’re not the same thing, but they both represent an institution’s commitment to diversity of viewpoints and freedom of speech. > [@Bricker](#): > > The University may well be virulently anti-conservative but realize it would look bad to deny the Young Bigots their ability to invite guest speakers while at the same time permitting the Students for the Ethical Treatment of Global Warming Anthropomorphic Transgendered Animals to invite guests. Exactly. The fact that they have an even-handed policy for campus groups, which allows the Young Bigots the same freedom as the SETGWATA when it comes to inviting campus speakers, is clear evidence of the institution’s recognition of the importance of diversity of viewpoints and freedom of speech, no matter what “virulently anti-conservative” views individual members of the institution may hold. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/182 "2007-11-02T02:47:36Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Unfortunately, students do a lot of dumb things all the time. Students scrawl graffiti including anti-gay slurs and the N-word, for example (I’ve seen it several times at schools where I’ve taught). I wouldn’t interpret that tendency as an indication that the schools are trying to indoctrinate students with anti-black and homophobic prejudices. By the same token, I wouldn’t interpret assholish student behavior at controversial lectures as an indication that the schools are trying to indoctrinate students with disrespect for diverse viewpoints and freedom of speech. [/QUOTE] And _if_ it was just this, and _if_ free speech were respected in other aspects of the university, then _maybe_ you’d have a point here, although I’d label the university naive and negligent at the very least for failing to anticipate, prevent or at least punish offenders who do this after the fact. But it’s not. Too many other examples of suppressing free speech exist to be able to give universities the benefit of the doubt. I have already mentioned Larry Summers, but this is hardly the only example: -Ridiculous speech codes that do more to foster an air of intimidation than ensure people act civilly toward each other (Think that sexual harrassment doesn’t occur among college students? Think again!) -Removal of campus newspapers and other literature carrying conservative viewpoints by students. Institution’s response: Zero (I can personally vouch for this, having seen it done at my first job as a librarian, and I can assure you that as a librarian, it was a wake-up call!). -Antireligious bias, including the suspension or refusal to fund both Christian and Muslim groups (I haven’t actually come across this personally, but I have talked to the religious groups on campus, and they are constantly under fire. FTR, I’m an atheist.) **Kimstu** , when it comes to freedom of speech, and the open recognition of ideas, the universities have been guilty of crimes of both commission and omission. Now maybe you just happened to luck out at great institutions, but campus suppression of free speech is not exactly subtle at other places, even to my dim intellect. I’m not saying it’s all the work of frothy ex 60’s radicals, but it needs to be stopped, however it started, and if it takes a conservative movement like FIRE to get the ball rolling, then I’m all for it. Perhaps it’s time for _real_ liberals who enjoy _real_ free speech on campus to remember what made them great. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/183 "2007-11-02T02:55:41Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] -Ridiculous speech codes that do more to foster an air of intimidation than ensure people act civilly toward each other (Think that sexual harrassment doesn’t occur among college students? Think again!) -Removal of campus newspapers and other literature carrying conservative viewpoints by students. Institution’s response: Zero (I can personally vouch for this, having seen it done at my first job as a librarian, and I can assure you that as a librarian, it was a wake-up call!). -Antireligious bias, including the suspension or refusal to fund both Christian and Muslim groups (I haven’t actually come across this personally, but I have talked to the religious groups on campus, and they are constantly under fire. FTR, I’m an atheist.) [/QUOTE] Wanted to add that this is just a sampling, and there are many, many, _many_ more examples. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/184 "2007-11-02T03:28:34Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] “racisim” [/QUOTE] New from Maxis Software! Have your sim drag other sims behind their cars! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/185 "2007-11-02T04:02:05Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] That’s when we beat him to death, your Honor. It was the pun that made us do it. [/QUOTE] It might be wise to let the Supreme Court rule on lethal injection before you try to stretch it to beating to death with a stick. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/186 "2007-11-02T11:06:47Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Unfortunately, students do a lot of dumb things all the time. Students scrawl graffiti including anti-gay slurs and the N-word, for example (I’ve seen it several times at schools where I’ve taught). I wouldn’t interpret that tendency as an indication that the schools are trying to indoctrinate students with anti-black and homophobic prejudices. By the same token, I wouldn’t interpret assholish student behavior at controversial lectures as an indication that the schools are trying to indoctrinate students with disrespect for diverse viewpoints and freedom of speech. [/QUOTE] Indeed. Liberal students shouting speakers off the stage isn’t as repellent as the recent rash of conservative students hanging nooses on the doors of black faculty members, but it’s still repellent, and it definitely happens. Colleges need to deal with it vigorously, IMO. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/187 "2007-11-02T11:50:05Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Indeed. Liberal students shouting speakers off the stage isn’t as repellent as the recent rash of conservative students hanging nooses on the doors of black faculty members, but it’s still repellent, and it definitely happens. Colleges need to deal with it vigorously, IMO. Daniel [/QUOTE] So far as I’m aware, the perpetrators of that noose incident at Columbia haven’t been caught yet. There have been hate crime hoaxes before, so perhaps we ought to wait before we assume the person(s) responsible were white and conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/188 "2007-11-02T12:26:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And I won’t count Pim Fortuyn, who was hit by urine-laced pies in 2002. He wasn’t speaking at a university. [/QUOTE] Well, shit, if you’re going to bring up Dutch politicians not even speaking at university and people from the 60’s, why stop with the pies. Fortuyn was shot dead in the street! Aha! And Bremer shot Wallace! Aha! ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/189 "2007-11-02T12:46:48Z")
[That damned liberal University and their Ministry of Truth continue to ram their “re-education” down people’s throats not matter what anybody. . .](http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8585.html) Oh, wait-- never mind. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/190 "2007-11-02T12:57:35Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] [That damned liberal University and their Ministry of Truth continue to ram their “re-education” down people’s throats not matter what anybody. . .](http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8585.html) Oh, wait-- never mind. [/QUOTE] Didn’t take you long to forget all about the Duke University rape hoax scandal, did it? Otherwise, I don’t think you’d be quite so flippant about all this. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/191 "2007-11-02T13:06:41Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Didn’t take you long to forget all about the Duke University rape hoax scandal, did it? Otherwise, I don’t think you’d be quite so flippant about all this. [/QUOTE] What in the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/192 "2007-11-02T13:38:53Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] What in the hell are you talking about? [/QUOTE] I’m talking about the way you tried to sneer away the problem of rampant political correctness in our universities with the flippant tone of your previous post, and I cited the recent hate campaign against three white male students at Duke University falsely accused of raping a black woman as a glaring example of political correctness running amok. That’s what I’m talking about. If you meant something else, then perhaps you should be a little more direct and a little less coy in your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/193 "2007-11-02T13:51:52Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] I’m talking about the way you tried to sneer away the problem of rampant political correctness in our universities with the flippant tone of your previous post, and I cited the recent hate campaign against three white male students at Duke University falsely accused of raping a black woman as a glaring example of political correctness running amok. That’s what I’m talking about. If you meant something else, then perhaps you should be a little more direct and a little less coy in your posts. [/QUOTE] Oh, is that what I did? I could have sworn I wrote a flippant post about U of D getting rid of that hateful diversity program you keep going on about. Boy, I didn’t know that my my two sentences conjured up white guys getting shit for a fake rape at a completely different University that has absofuckinglutly nothing to do with what I wrote. Thanks for pointing that out, **Lonesome**. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/194 "2007-11-02T13:55:05Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Oh, is that what I did? I could have sworn I wrote a flippant post about U of D getting rid of that hateful diversity program you keep going on about. Boy, I didn’t know that my my two sentences conjured up white guys getting shit for a fake rape at a completely different University that has absofuckinglutly nothing to do with what I wrote. Thanks for pointing that out, **Lonesome**. [/QUOTE] Learn how to fucking write, cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/195 "2007-11-02T14:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Learn how to fucking write, cunt. [/QUOTE] How can you say this when there are slaves mining diamonds in Africa, fuckface? ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/196 "2007-11-02T14:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Learn how to fucking write, cunt. [/QUOTE] It is an arduous process, but I am sure your noble goal of inclusion in academia will be achieved. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/197 "2007-11-02T14:25:01Z")
Can’t we all just get along? Especially now that the University of Delaware realized that there were real problems with this program and scrapped the whole thing? There will be no further activities under it, and they’re going to redo the whole thing from scratch. [Link.](http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2008/nov/letter110107.html) I find it interesting that now they are saying that program goals aren’t being met, where a few days ago criticism of the program seems to have been met with responses that everything was just fine with it. But anyway, it’s dead, and something else will replace it. I hope whatever that is is more respectful of the academic freedoms of the students it teaches, and I’m glad this particular program, which didn’t seem so respectful of these, is gone. Kudos to the U of D for correcting a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/198 "2007-11-02T14:30:15Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Can’t we all just get along? Especially now that the University of Delaware realized that there were real problems with this program and scrapped the whole thing? There will be no further activities under it, and they’re going to redo the whole thing from scratch. [Link.](http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2008/nov/letter110107.html) [/quote] That’s the information I originally posted. Watch out, **Lonesome** might call you a cunt for that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/199 "2007-11-02T14:47:45Z")
Sorry about that. It’s easy to miss things in the vitriol sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/200 "2007-11-02T15:04:34Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Learn how to fucking write, cunt. [/QUOTE] Sigh . . . You know the problem with debating stuff like academic freedom is? So many of the people on your side are either assholes or totally off their nut. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770.md?page=11)