# There's no Pit thread on the Romney bullying story yet, so . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582 "2012-05-11T02:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/201 "2012-05-11T19:17:05Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I get it, you think I’m unreasonable and abrasive, and do not like the style of posting I’ve adopted in this thread. But does that excuse just repeating it over and over again? I got it the first time. Not quite. I mean you are being unreasonable and abrasive, but I really just think you’re making a fool of yourself. And most of us here are simply shaking our heads, and/or laughing at you while you do it. Feel free to continue though, if nothing else it is at least entertaining. Also, I only would have made the constantly calling everyone idiots point once if you had actually addressed it. Instead you just kept ignoring it, so I kept saying it each time you called someone else an idiot waiting for you to actually address it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/202 "2012-05-11T19:19:21Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Very well stated. > > This whole story is a tempest in a teapot, but it’s got the liberals wanking all over the place because they think it has some kind of meaning or value. Let’s put it this way, let’s say you agree with Barack Obama on 90% of the issues and disagree with Mitt Romney on 90% of the issues. It comes out tomorrow Barack Obama did some bullying of someone in high school, similar to what Romney did. Would you then vote for a third party candidate (meaning potentially contributing to Obama not having enough votes to carry your state) or for Mitt Romney? I doubt anyone can candidly say that they would change their vote in such circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/203 "2012-05-11T19:27:11Z")
I’m _nothing_ like the guy I was when I was 17-18 and I’m _much_ younger than Mittens. The shit he pulled back then is irrelevant. His political opponent’s illicit drug use is MUCH more recent history and I don’t care about that either. Like it or not, people tend to grow up as they gain life experience. If you want to bash on Romney, it should be easy enough to find something he did or said in the last 5-10 years, preferebly even last month. But going back half a century and expecting his actions to be some indication of his current beliefs is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/204 "2012-05-11T19:31:19Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Very well stated. > > This whole story is a tempest in a teapot, but it’s got the liberals wanking all over the place because they think it has some kind of meaning or value. Oh shit! Oh shit! Critical mass! [dives for cover] ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/205 "2012-05-11T19:31:50Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Then I said that it doesn’t matter that _there is “some chance” that people who bullied at 14 will still bully at 32_, and that it was obvious. That isn’t the same as me saying bullying as a child has anything to do with bullying as an adult–although I actually said nothing along those lines,\* I just said bullying as a child has nothing to do with what type of man you’ll be\*. Progress… progress… but you really should put more padding than that between two mutually exclusive assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/206 "2012-05-11T19:34:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Let’s put it this way, let’s say you agree with Barack Obama on 90% of the issues and disagree with Mitt Romney on 90% of the issues. It comes out tomorrow Barack Obama did some bullying of someone in high school, similar to what Romney did. Would you then vote for a third party candidate (meaning potentially contributing to Obama not having enough votes to carry your state) or for Mitt Romney? > > I doubt anyone can candidly say that they would change their vote in such circumstances. Look, it’s certainly RO for us assholes on this board, since those of us who care to read the political threads already have our minds made up. But not everyone in the US is a staunch partisan. Given the following elements: [ul] [li]Romney did this bad thing as a kid in his youth[/li][li]The people he did it with are remorseful even now[/li][li]Romney claims not to remember[/li][/ul] That’s going to look pretty bad on him. The people who vote on personality and not issues might well be swayed by that, just as they might have been swayed by the accusations in 2008 about Obama’s association with angry black people in his youth. As several people have said, the problem isn’t what he did in the past. Lots of people did shitty things when they were kids (and _no_ to some of you idiots in this thread, just because 18 is legal adulthood doesn’t make an 18-year-old an adult in every aspect). The important thing is how you feel about them now. I still remember and regret the day I winged a pinecone at a kid me and some other boys were teasing in middle school. The hair-cutting incident was significant enough to be remembered by Romney’s associates at the time, so for him to say he doesn’t remember it is emotionless at best and a lie at worst. If he owned up to it, fine. But he’s not, and that’s a problem. Is it a big problem? Not on the whole, and not enough to budge partisans on either side. But it is one more mark against him. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/207 "2012-05-11T19:35:10Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > You call everyone in this thread an “idiot” over and over and then when I fuck with you, you start crying. > > You sir, are a pussy. Bullies usually are cowards. Give one the choice between France and Vietnam in the 60s, and he’ll take France every time. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > But does that excuse just repeating it over and over again? Repetition is a standard technique when dealing with a slow student. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/208 "2012-05-11T19:37:48Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I say bullying as a child has nothing to do with what type of man you’ll be, because we continue to mature for some time after High School. You’re right in that some people continue to mature for some time after High School. This means that if you are a bully as a child is does not necessarily follow that you will be a bully as an adult. Some people though do NOT mature after High School, and they continue to be bullies. When they become adults and they see people who do not conform to their idea of what “decent folks” should look like or act like, they will try to bully them out of it - not by assault, but by more subtle forms. This is the sort of person that Romney has shown himself to be this week. He did not mature after High School like his peers did. They matured, changed and showed remorse about what they did. Romney “did not remember”, and offered a lame half-assed apology. This is not what mature people do. This is what bullies who grew up to be bullies do. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/209 "2012-05-11T19:37:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by \*\*saoirse \*\* > > Hey, don’t bring Bush into this. When Bush was a year older, he prevented a bullying incident against a classmate who later came out as gay. Bush told his tormentors to “try walking in his shoes sometime.” > > Cite please. Did you read the thread, or did you just go hunting around for shit to reply to? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/210 "2012-05-11T19:40:56Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I’m _nothing_ like the guy I was when I was 17-18 and I’m _much_ younger than Mittens. The shit he pulled back then is irrelevant. His political opponent’s illicit drug use is MUCH more recent history and I don’t care about that either. > > Like it or not, people tend to grow up as they gain life experience. If you want to bash on Romney, it should be easy enough to find something he did or said in the last 5-10 years, preferebly even last month. But going back half a century and expecting his actions to be some indication of his current beliefs is just stupid. I think there are two issues here. Many people misbehave. But few misbehave like this. This incident isn’t about standard hijinks. It’s about publicly humiliating a “sissy” teen. Honestly, I’ve never know anyone who did this level of evil while in highschool. And I went to a tough highschool full of lower income kids in Hawaii. I saw fights, I saw mocking, but never this particular level. Can you imagine this kid walking away from where he’d been sheared. How his hair must have looked, and needing to get it recut? In any case, the particular actions are vile. But, as everyone says, kids will be kids. But most kids won’t do this particular level of evil. What most people are getting at, isn’t that he did this. It’s that he feels no remorse for it. Another member of the group that attacked him apologized, another felt sick about it. Mitt? It was such a non issue, he forgot about it. If I held a boy down while he shrieked for help and branded him with a rat-bite haircut while people all around looked and laughed, I’d remember it. And I would feel sick every time I did. Not Mitt, he just chose a new target and forgot the old campaigns. He was a completely self-absorbed prick at 18 and I see no evidence he’s changed an angstrom since. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/211 "2012-05-11T19:42:35Z")
> **[Flashback: Obama's Sordid High School Past](https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2012/05/10/obama-high-school-drugs/)** > > | **Flashback: Obama’s Sordid High School Past** While the Washington Post has been diligently digging into relatively innocent high school pranks by Mitt Romney, they’ve spent the last few years diligently ignoring President Obama’s far more controversial high school days. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/212 "2012-05-11T19:45:19Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > But not everyone in the US is a staunch partisan. Given the following elements: > [ul] > [li]Romney did this bad thing as a kid in his youth[/li][li]The people he did it with are remorseful even now[/li][li]Romney claims not to remember[/li][/ul] > That’s going to look pretty bad on him. The people who vote on personality and not issues might well be swayed by that, just as they might have been swayed by the accusations in 2008 about Obama’s association with angry black people in his youth. The worst part is how Romney handled this RIGHT THIS WEEK. “I don’t remember”. Lame. Sounds like an excuse that a 12 year old would use. Grow up Mitt. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/213 "2012-05-11T19:47:53Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > [http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/10/Obama-High-School-Drugs](http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/10/Obama-High-School-Drugs) > > **Flashback: Obama’s Sordid High School Past** > While the Washington Post has been diligently digging into relatively innocent high school pranks by Mitt Romney, they’ve spent the last few years diligently ignoring President Obama’s far more controversial high school days. This is an example of how a conservative thinks he’s one-upping, but is actually proving the point he’s trying to refute. First, Ben Shapiro is a twat, you shouldn’t take anything he says at face value. Second, Obama has admitted using drugs and wrote about it in his book. Third, using drugs doesn’t hurt anyone else. Fourth, leave the talk to the big boys, you’re not strong enough to swim here yet, tadpole. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/214 "2012-05-11T19:48:02Z")
**dngnb8** , as has been pointed out already, those horrible, horrible things about Obama did not have to be “diligently dug into”, because Obama PUBLISHED THEM IN A BOOK HIMSELF. The important thing is how a grown man handles the things he did in his youth that are not great. 1. Learn and grow from them, recognizing your mistakes, and becoming a better man 2. Ignore them and when confronted with the facts, say “I forgot”. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/215 "2012-05-11T19:53:40Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Look, it’s certainly RO for us assholes on this board, since those of us who care to read the political threads already have our minds made up. > > But not everyone in the US is a staunch partisan. Given the following elements: > [ul] > [li]Romney did this bad thing as a kid in his youth[/li][li]The people he did it with are remorseful even now[/li][li]Romney claims not to remember[/li][/ul] > That’s going to look pretty bad on him. The people who vote on personality and not issues might well be swayed by that, just as they might have been swayed by the accusations in 2008 about Obama’s association with angry black people in his youth. > > As several people have said, the problem isn’t what he did in the past. Lots of people did shitty things when they were kids (and _no_ to some of you idiots in this thread, just because 18 is legal adulthood doesn’t make an 18-year-old an adult in every aspect). > > The important thing is how you feel about them now. I still remember and regret the day I winged a pinecone at a kid me and some other boys were teasing in middle school. The hair-cutting incident was significant enough to be remembered by Romney’s associates at the time, so for him to say he doesn’t remember it is emotionless at best and a lie at worst. > > If he owned up to it, fine. But he’s not, and that’s a problem. Is it a big problem? Not on the whole, and not enough to budge partisans on either side. But it is one more mark against him. Even if Romney genuinely doesn’t remember, I think the best political response would have been an apology in which he didn’t quibble in that regard. He should have shown some facsimile of remorse and moved on. That being said, to me it doesn’t really change my opinion of what Romney the President would be like (which, by the way, is basically lukewarm–Romney isn’t anything anyone on the right or left is particularly excited about.) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/216 "2012-05-11T19:54:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The important thing is how a grown man handles the things he did in his youth that are not great. If we knew that would be the focus of dredging up Romney’s past hijinks, then I’d be all for it. Just to see if he’s got the stones to own something and say, “Yeah, that was pretty fucked up of me. But I haven’t done anything like that since before the Nixon Administration so…next question.” But what I find aggravating is using amoral 18 year-old behavior as some kind of moral barometer for an old man. –Inigo out ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/217 "2012-05-11T20:23:47Z")
I, too, am willing to believe that people can and do change over the years. It is entirely probable that Mitt is _not_ the same person today. So that leaves us with several options. 1. Mitt IS the same bully, and just does a good job of hiding it 2. Mitt _has_ changed _and_ honestly doesn’t remember the event 3. Mitt remembers and regrets the event like his cohorts did, but doesn’t want to admit to it 4. Mitt remembers the event, doesn’t regret it, chalks it up to youthful indiscretion but doesn’t want to admit to it 5. Mitt remembers and regrets the event and has been badly advised that he should \*not \*admit to it for political reasons To me, options 1 and 2 are not likely. Options 3 and 5 seem the _most_ likely ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/218 "2012-05-11T20:28:35Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Even if Romney genuinely doesn’t remember, I think the best political response would have been an apology in which he didn’t quibble in that regard. He should have shown some facsimile of remorse and moved on. Glad we agree on that much, at least. > [@](#): > > That being said, to me it doesn’t really change my opinion of what Romney the President would be like (which, by the way, is basically lukewarm–Romney isn’t anything anyone on the right or left is particularly excited about.) Right, but like I said, it’s not us partisan assholes I’m thinking about. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/219 "2012-05-11T20:35:13Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You were one of the people arguing with me in one of those threads. I’ll try to remember how much of a moral vacuum you are in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/220 "2012-05-11T20:47:52Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > 1. Mitt IS the same bully, and just does a good job of hiding it > 2. Mitt _has_ changed _and_ honestly doesn’t remember the event > 3. Mitt remembers and regrets the event like his cohorts did, but doesn’t want to admit to it > 4. Mitt remembers the event, doesn’t regret it, chalks it up to youthful indiscretion but doesn’t want to admit to it > 5. Mitt remembers and regrets the event and has been badly advised that he should \*not \*admit to it for political reasons 1. Mitt is a more mature type of bully, the one who would mock someone asking for clemency rather than partake in harassing a homosexual. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=12)