# There's no Pit thread on the Romney bullying story yet, so . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582 "2012-05-11T02:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/261 "2012-05-12T22:25:07Z")
Also, he seems to have an unusually good memory for details. Sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/262 "2012-05-12T22:31:59Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Also, he seems to have an unusually good memory for details. > > Sometimes. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/263 "2012-05-13T00:45:37Z")
[Toon sez it all!](http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002678594)šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/264 "2012-05-13T01:10:14Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > By itself? As irrelevant as Mittā€™s defenders insist the haircut story is. As part of an emerging pattern about Romneyā€™s character? Another brick in the wall. These incidents, occurring at such a young age, arenā€™t nearly proof that Mitt these days is a colossal douchebag. But for those of us who realize that he is in fact a colossal douchebag, it helps us figure out exactly _what sort_ of colossal douchebag he is. And nothing in his life that Iā€™ve seen, from elementary school to today, has convinced me that his sympathies arenā€™t always and forever with the privileged over the downtrodden. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/265 "2012-05-13T01:21:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Indeed. As has been said, pretty much all of us have done stuff as kids that we are not particularly proud of. > > When I tell a story about one of these times, I usually tell it as a cautionary tale, with emphasis on what I learned from it. Mitt seems to tell them as amusing stories, and one gets the impression that he learned nothing from it. > > And Iā€™ve known quite a few scouts during my time as a leader. I canā€™t think of a single one of them who would throw rocks at a horse with a rider on it. And if they did, none of them would think it was an amusing story to tell others about later. They would know that it was wrong. Exactly. As a 12 year old I shot a BB gun at a cow. Actually aimed just in front of her so a small cloud of dust rose up and startled her. (Even then I knew not to actually hit the beast.) To this day I have a regret about doing that small thing. Thatā€™s why I cannot understand Mitt forgetting about the nasty prank against the blind teacher and the assault on another kid. He has no conscious? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/266 "2012-05-13T01:26:33Z")
No. Heā€™s on the record as having wanted to expand Bushā€™s torture program and seeing to it his victims have no legal recourse. That Romneyā€™s a lousy human being is beyond question. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/267 "2012-05-13T01:42:27Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > No. Heā€™s on the record as having wanted to expand Bushā€™s torture program and seeing to it his victims have no legal recourse. That Romneyā€™s a lousy human being is beyond question. Apparently, empathy wasnā€™t one of the criteria they Turing tested the software for. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/268 "2012-05-13T05:05:07Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > When I tell a story about one of these times, I usually tell it as a cautionary tale, with emphasis on what I learned from it. Mitt seems to tell them as amusing stories, and one gets the impression that he learned nothing from it. > > And Iā€™ve known quite a few scouts during my time as a leader. I canā€™t think of a single one of them who would throw rocks at a horse with a rider on it. And if they did, none of them would think it was an amusing story to tell others about later. They would know that it was wrong. Where the hell was the leader? Did no one notice or do anything? But Iā€™m getting the impression that Mitt has no inner moral sense - plenty of an outer one imposed by LDS, but no self-critical thinking, When he tells a story he never evaluates his past actions for correctness. It is kind of like Bush never thinking he made a mistake but worse, since Bush seems to have appreciated that he wasnā€™t acting properly in his wild days. Maybe it is why Romney can shift positions so radically and not feel the slightest need to explain this. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/269 "2012-05-13T14:25:53Z")
[Roy Zimmermanā€™s take on the matter](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-UKYW-Wh-Q). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/270 "2012-05-13T15:07:49Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > [Roy Zimmermanā€™s take on the matter](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-UKYW-Wh-Q). šŸ˜ƒ That was delightful! Thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/271 "2012-05-13T15:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Itā€™s a minor misdemeanor that would almost certainly result in absolutely no jail time. People other than Mitt Romney commit minor infractions like this all the time and are almost never prosecuted. The reason for that is at common law a lot of things that most people would view as minor can qualify as assault or battery. Things like altercations in schools are almost never treated as crimes, same as altercations in college football games. Most likely George Bush and Barack Obama would have done some actual time in jail if they had been caught when they were coke users. A police officer could have walked in on what Romney was doing to this kid and I guarantee an arrest wouldnā€™t have even happened. It may have been the case a few decades ago that things like school altercations were dealt with solely in-house, but it certainly is not like that now. In this age of zero tolerance policies, school fistfights are routinely prosecuted. I am a public defender in juvenile court, and Iā€™d guess that 25% of my caseload involves stuff that would have merited a 3-day suspension at worst when I was a high-schooler in the early '90s. I know of schools, both urban and suburban, that codify in their student handbooks the fact that both parties in fistfights and shoving matches will be prosecuted, regardless of who started it! The important thing to take from this is that Mitt has not grown from this incident in the way that Iā€™d hope a leader would. I believe that the incident took place because of the independent corroboration of several others involved, as well as the fact that Mitt did not immediately deny it, as he would if it were fabricated. ā€œI donā€™t rememberā€ are weasel words used by someone who is uncomfortable with his actions but knows that they occurred and therefore canā€™t outright deny them. So if it happened, and I believe that to be the case, Mitt had a real opportunity. He could explain that the culture in the 1960s was different than that of today, but even given that, looking back he is aware that he did a terrible, unforgivable thing. That in reflection, he realizes that childhood bullying can leave scars that remain long after the hair grows back. He did none of these things, and to the casual observer it seems like he didnā€™t grow at all. A shame, because this could have been a real chance for him to appear more human, grounded and real. A good leader knows his flaws and constantly strives to be a better man. A bad leader ā€œdoesnā€™t recallā€ his past mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/272 "2012-05-13T18:45:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Iā€™ve actually observed kids that get bullied are more likely to become serial killers so we should really be worried about the kids who didnā€™t bully other kids. OK, soā€¦ is it because Martin Hyde so frequently says such colossally ignorant things that almost nobody bothered to respond to this particular example? People who are known to be violent and show disregard for the rights and well-being of other people are fine as they are because he claims to have ā€œobservedā€ multiple bullied kids become serial killers? What? OK, first, thatā€™s not how the real world works, at all. Serial killing is an escalation of bullying behavior. The psychopathic traits used to identify killers are the same ones chronic bullies have. Second, even if those who were bullied were somehow more likely to become serial killers than the bullies themselves, which they arenā€™t, that would just be more reason to stop bullies, not less. But then Martinā€™s actions here seem to be attempts at bullying people who disagree with him, so itā€™s no surprise that heā€™s defending the behavior. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/273 "2012-05-13T19:16:11Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > OK, soā€¦ is it because Martin Hyde so frequently says such colossally ignorant things that almost nobody bothered to respond to this particular example? I think I speak for the entire internet when I say ā€œyesā€ ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/274 "2012-05-13T19:25:57Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Oh, heā€™s not walking in \*my \*shoes. I paid good money for them. Iā€™m wearing Allen-Edmonds most of the time, I paid good money for my shoes too, and theyā€™re probably a lot more comfortable than womenā€™s shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/275 "2012-05-13T19:30:29Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Shut up. Why donā€™t you try walking in their shoes for a while and see how it feels before you make a comment like that? My post was actually one of compassion. Itā€™s basically beyond question (and is supported by the DSM-IV) that if you were born with XY chromosome and male genitalia youā€™re a man, and believing youā€™re ā€œreally a womanā€ is a type of mental illness. Iā€™ve not said all people who feel that way need to be locked up, just like not all schizophrenics need to be locked up. What I have said is the ones who are so far gone they really want to physically mutilate their bodies, to try and change reality to match their delusions, need help. They need help inside of a mental hospital until they can be brought back to some level of functioning without this dangerous desire for self-mutilation. I think itā€™s very depressing that, because of political concerns, medical science has essentially given up on trying to do anything to fix the mental illness that is the root of these peopleā€™s problems. Instead, the cheap fix (mutilate them so they can happily live their delusions) has basically become the preferred way to fix these people. Iā€™ve mentioned before that in certain extreme circumstances I might be okay with doctors doing these mutilations, but by and large I think they should be prohibited as they violate the core concept of ā€œdo no harmā€ to the patient. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/276 "2012-05-13T19:44:32Z")
**Martin Hyde** is conservative compassion incarnate. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/277 "2012-05-13T19:50:05Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Whatā€™d you think of the Patient Protection and Affordable Healthcare Act of 2009? Bonus points if you can link to a post of yours defending it on the Straight Dope. I donā€™t know that I have posts explicitly defending Obamacare. My general opinion of it was health care reform is a good goal, and something we should do. But the political street fight in the run up to passing Obamacare has made it a mess. It got some good, needed reforms passed but I donā€™t see that itā€™s really done enough to control health care **costs**. Which are the true source of our long term health care crisis, not people who are uninsured. Obama approached the problem as though the uninsured were the number one problem, Iā€™d have approached it as costs growing much faster than inflation being the number one problem. I donā€™t know how to control those costs, but Iā€™ve long said (and said many times) single payer is better than what we do now, and is better than Obamacare. Itā€™s too complicated an issue for me to have a very valid opinion, but something Iā€™ve always said is this. When LASIK surgery first came out, it was $5,000 an eye around here. Itā€™s now down to $500/eye at some places in my area. Optometry is by and large something in which the consumers are the ones making the price decisions and they are laid out very carefully. Vision insurance typically is just a discount system (being in the pool gets you a discount on products/services), but a large portion of the bill is still typically paid for by the consumer. The optometrists recognize this and if youā€™ve been to an optometrist they lay out everything very clearly for you. If you want this coating it will be $39 extra dollars, this frame is $220, this one is $180, if you want us to use this new photographic equipment to get a high resolution image of your eye it costs $40 but you donā€™t have to get your eye dilated if you do it. When you go into a hospital for ā€œrealā€ medical treatment, how many of you have been asked ā€œokay, we think we need to run these 4 tests, this one costs x, this one costs y, this one costs z. The benefits are a, b, c and d, I advise you to get them, but let me know which ones you want?ā€ Thatā€™s never happened to me, ever. The last time I was in the hospital I was ran through three tests on my heart and at no point did the doctor **ask** if I wanted them or offer to explain what the cost to me of these tests are. For a man my age Iā€™m lucky in that Iā€™ve almost never been to hospitals, so maybe people who have gone a lot more than me have different experiences, but I doubt it. The entire system isnā€™t really set up for the doctor to even be able to go over pricing and such with you like an optometrist does. I donā€™t think most doctors can genuinely tell you how much your out of pocket expense will be impacted by x test, because they have to have an entire staff of people to wade through myriad different insurers and reimbursement plans before they could even begin to get to a real number. So what Iā€™m ultimately saying is, I donā€™t know why optometry is subjected to consistent downward pressure on prices, where technology makes things cheaper over time (like it does in say, the electronics market or almost any other market) but I wonder if there isnā€™t a way to make the rest of medicine more like optometry. Because instead of new technology applying downward pressure on pricing in normal medicine, it seems like it increases cost exponentially. > [@](#): > > Also, what do you gain from inhabiting a forum in which you think the majority of posters are beneath you? If, collectively, the SDMB cannot change your mind on any issue, do you expect to change other peopleā€™s opinions? Or do you seek only to humiliate and belittle posters here? Iā€™m here for entertainment, not to change hearts and minds. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/278 "2012-05-13T19:53:37Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I also am a retired army officer. I am not glorifying military service, and am expressing my distaste for cowardice. Romney let someone else go to Vietnam in his place. I think itā€™s a piss poor attitude that anyone who doesnā€™t go into military service is a coward. Iā€™ve never felt that way about service. If someone criminally dodged the draft, that is wrong. Romney was on a religious mission, and that has been a valid way to avoid the draft for a **long** time. We didnā€™t make Quakers or Amish fight in WWI or WWII. (Though they could be drafted into non-combat service.) Unless we think Romneyā€™s Mormonism was just a put-on to avoid the draft, I have no desire to fault him morally for it. I donā€™t see how it is any different than all the college deferments. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/279 "2012-05-13T20:10:18Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I donā€™t see how it is any different than all the college deferments. You wouldnā€™t, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/280 "2012-05-13T20:13:49Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > You wouldnā€™t, would you? Explain how it is different. Both were legal, under the laws of the time, ways to exempt yourself from being drafted at that age at that time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=15)