# There's no Pit thread on the Romney bullying story yet, so . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582 "2012-05-11T02:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/101 "2012-05-11T14:47:16Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Anyone who cares about this is mind-numbingly stupid. He’s 65+ years old, this happened in the 1960s which is so far removed from today where society actually cares about bullying as to be ridiculous. In his era bullying was widely encouraged, not at all discouraged. The ‘long ago’ things that people are reacting to are examples of basic dis-respect for life. If someone accused your of the same acts (leading a gang to hold down and forcibly cut the hair of a classmate)… what would your first reaction be? (a) WHAT? Are you NUTS? I would never have done that, you can ask anyone (b) Sure we did it? So what, times were different then and that kid was a odd ball (c) Gee, I’m not sure? Maybe we did, which one was he again? I’m sorry, but if at the age of 17/18 he felt so entitled that it was okay to asault a kid over his hair length, what kind of parents raised this kid? Because that is the man that Romney is today. I personally am not too keen on putting a multi-billion dollar military at the disposal of a person who thinks it is okay to assault people just because they’re different. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/102 "2012-05-11T14:50:19Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Hey, don’t bring Bush into this. When Bush was a year older, he prevented a bullying incident against a classmate who later came out as gay. Bush told his tormentors to “try walking in his shoes sometime.” > > I agree with this. If it were someone who didn’t already have an issue, it would hardly be noticed. I do remember in 2009, one of John McCain’s aides saying that the reason that every other primary candidate so loathed Romney was the way Romney and his senior advisors tried to act like “the cool kids.” Hey, I never heard about the Bush incident that you mentioned. Way to go, Dubya! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/103 "2012-05-11T15:00:50Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Your exact words, which I quoted, were: > > “It was meaningless in its time.” > > At the time that Romney committed his assault, he caused terror and distress to a much younger classmate. The distress that Romney caused was meaningful at the time … to the victim. The fact that Romney got away with assault because his father had pull doesn’t make the victim’s suffering meaningless. > > It’s that empathy thing. I know it’s a problem for you Republicans. You’re a moron, he didn’t get away with it because his father had pull but simply because society did not care about this. People would laugh at you if you called this a “criminal assault” in 1965, literally laugh at you. Enforcement of the law changes with societal mores. I know someone who drove drunk through a college campus in the 60s and slammed their car into a park bench. Police showed up and drove the guy home and got his car towed out of there, no charges were pressed. Thirty years later, that guy would have been expelled, had DUI/DWI on his record and etc. Fifty years ago you could be arrested for having gay sex, by the 1980s those laws were still legally valid but virtually never enforced. Changing mores change how the law would be enforced, and most likely even the victim of this thing would **never** have considered this a criminal matter in 1965. Romney didn’t avoid trouble because his dad had pull, he avoided trouble because this wasn’t seen as a big deal. Do we even know if the victim reported it to anyone? That in itself is extremely unlikely given the attitudes toward bullying in the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/104 "2012-05-11T15:02:06Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Ok, we’re here to fight ignorance, so… the study doesn’t really apply to Romney.This study involved 41 public middle school students (22 males, 19 females; mean age ¼ 12.6 years, SD¼ 0.9 years, age range 11–15 years; 11 sixth-graders, 18 seventh-graders, 12 eighth-graders; 15 Whites, 16 Blacks, 7 Hispanics, 3 American Indians) who were identified by school counselors as having three or more office referrals from administrators or teachers in a school year. The referrals were a result of any of the following behaviors: name calling, fighting, relentless picking on other students, defiance toward teachers, or getting kicked out of an in-school suspension class. These students constituted the bully group.Romney wasn’t a rowdy kid with impulse-control problems. Romney was a smart guy who bullied in groups and stayed below the school’s radar. He was a reasonably popular little prick, not a loser. All that said: It was found that bullying behavior was associated more with… conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, attention- deficit /hyperactivity disorder… histrionic, paranoid…neuro-psychological dysfunction and executive functional deficits.The perfect Republican!An implication of these findings is that traditional shorter term psychotherapeutic interventions for bullying behavior may be of limited value given the complex nature of the associated psychopathology. I agree. Long term treatment is necessary. Dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/105 "2012-05-11T15:03:08Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > It sounds like Romney was exactly the sort of terrifying, braying bully who used to make my life hell in high school. Most of these people grew up and matured and we could now be the best of friends, let bygones be bygones. > > But Romney grew up to be someone who _wants to rewrite the Constitution to discriminate against gays_. Which means he is \*still \*a terrifying, braying bully. He doesn’t want to rewrite the constitution, does he? Do you have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/106 "2012-05-11T15:04:20Z")
This basically boils down to this, no one here that has a problem with this was going to vote for Romney anyway. Everyone here will find ridiculous reasons to call Republicans sociopaths and et cetera, there’s no reason to take that stuff seriously. The Democrats on this forum are basically moronic mouth breathers who masturbate furiously to the Daily Kos and watch more Fox News in a week than most Republicans so they can scream in righteous indignation. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/107 "2012-05-11T15:06:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > He doesn’t want to rewrite the constitution, does he? Do you have a cite for that? Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. Heard of it? The evil men you vote for want it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/108 "2012-05-11T15:08:07Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > This basically boils down to this, no one here that has a problem with this was going to vote for Romney anyway. Everyone here will find ridiculous reasons to call Republicans sociopaths and et cetera, there’s no reason to take that stuff seriously. The Democrats on this forum are basically moronic mouth breathers who masturbate furiously to the Daily Kos and watch more Fox News in a week than most Republicans so they can scream in righteous indignation. You are delusional. Which is pretty much standard for Republicans. In any case, vote for the twat if you want. You’ll either get the evil rulership and crushing boot on the backs of the poor you want, or not. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/109 "2012-05-11T15:11:10Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 😕 > > He’s a Republican. _That’s_ genuinely the indicator that he should not be President. _Of course_ the rest of it can be used for the benefit of the few people who haven’t grasped that obvious fact. Right, because one side of the political spectrum is absolutely right on 100% of issues and we should never have governing from the other side. What I find so hilarious about these boards is the complete lack of perspective. Any real American should fully want both parties to alternate power at regular intervals, long periods of single party rule lead to all sorts of negatives. But Democrats here are so mind-numbingly stupid that you all probably vote straight party every election–the definition of absolute stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/110 "2012-05-11T15:12:05Z")
I come bearing links: > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > He doesn’t want to rewrite the constitution, does he? Do you have a cite for that? [Romney](http://www.npr.org/2012/05/11/152489094/the-nation-gay-marriage-caught-romney-off-guard) > [@](#): > > also supports a federal amendment to the Constitution that would ban gay marriage. > [@gytalf2000](#): > > Hey, I never heard about the Bush incident that you mentioned. Way to go, Dubya! [Bush](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/05/10/holding-down-and-terrorizing-a-crying-pleading-boy-is-not-a-prank-mitt?oid=13616185&show=comments&sort=desc&display=) > [@](#): > > heard it and, most uncharacteristically, snapped: “Shut up.” Then he said, in words I can remember almost verbatim: “Why don’t you try walking in his shoes for a while and see how it feels before you make a comment like that?” > > Remember, this was the 1960s — pre-Stonewall, before gay rights became a cause many of us (especially male college students) had thought much about. I remember thinking, “This guy is much deeper than I realized.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/111 "2012-05-11T15:12:34Z")
Without getting into the whole issue of the specific incident or his particular character, I will note a couple of anachronisms that have shown up in this thread. In 1965, being an eighteen year old in a boarding high school did not make one an “adult” in Michigan, (or most of the country). Eighteen-year-olds had no voting rights, no drinking rights, (Michigan never had a 3.2 beer law), and only rarely were prosecuted as adults for minor infractions. At that time, the odds on gathering a “posse” were nil. Certainly, the word would never have been used–more likely the group would have been called a gang–but even the actions would not have been those associated with “posse,” now. More likely, a bunch of guys hanging around a dorm room would have simply talked themselves into a bit of mayhem, saw their victim, and acted without any organizing taking place. (Been there, been the victim.) In no way do these things change the horrible tauma inflicted on the victim–and Romney’s memory loss is awfully convenient–but he was pretty much acting in accordance with the culture of the school in which he had already spent over five years of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/112 "2012-05-11T15:13:50Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. Heard of it? The evil men you vote for want it. Actually I haven’t. I don’t really pay much attention to gay marriage issues because I don’t care. I think it’s great though, anything to piss off the Democrats. I wish they’d start locking up people who want gender assignment surgery for the mentally ill people that they are and taking children away from gay couples who have no business adopting, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/113 "2012-05-11T15:14:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > but he was pretty much acting in accordance with the culture of the school in which he had already spent over five years of his life. Do you know who else pretty much acted in accordance with the culture of his time? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/114 "2012-05-11T15:16:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Without getting into the whole issue of the specific incident or his particular character, I will note a couple of anachronisms that have shown up in this thread. > > In 1965, being an eighteen year old in a boarding high school did not make one an “adult” in Michigan, (or most of the country). Eighteen-year-olds had no voting rights, no drinking rights, (Michigan never had a 3.2 beer law), and only rarely were prosecuted as adults for minor infractions. > At that time, the odds on gathering a “posse” were nil. Certainly, the word would never have been used–more likely the group would have been called a gang–but even the actions would not have been those associated with “posse,” now. More likely, a bunch of guys hanging around a dorm room would have simply talked themselves into a bit of mayhem, saw their victim, and acted without any organizing taking place. (Been there, been the victim.) > > In no way do these things change the horrible tauma inflicted on the victim–and Romney’s memory loss is awfully convenient–but he was pretty much acting in accordance with the culture of the school in which he had already spent over five years of his life. The point about 18 years old is one I made, I tried to find out when the age of majority became 18 in Michigan but was unable to find it through googling. But in a lot of places, well into the 20th century, 21 year olds were not prosecuted in adult courts and were not able to do things like get married without permission, sign into contracts and etc. The move to push the age of charging people with adult crimes downward and downward started in the 1980s when people had a panic about young teenage “super criminals” who people were afraid would be allowed to go crazy murdering people and be released at age 21. So now you have 12 year olds going to prison for life for murder. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/115 "2012-05-11T15:19:35Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Right, because one side of the political spectrum is absolutely right on 100% of issues and we should never have governing from the other side. No one is 100% right on all issues. But the Dems are certainly much, much closer on the vast majority of issues. Most Republican stances are for things that would make the country worse. For instance, they think cutting public sector workers during a recovery is a good idea, that’s just stupid. Couple the nonsense economic beliefs with the absurd social positions and you’ve got a political party that only the ignorant, the misinformed and people with a blind, team-mentality would vote for. Which are you? > [@](#): > > What I find so hilarious about these boards is the complete lack of perspective. Any real American should fully want both parties to alternate power at regular intervals, long periods of single party rule lead to all sorts of negatives. But Democrats here are so mind-numbingly stupid that you all probably vote straight party every election–the definition of absolute stupidity. Until the Republicans touch ground again, voting for them is stupid. They don’t have sound policies now. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/116 "2012-05-11T15:21:29Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Actually I haven’t. I don’t really pay much attention to gay marriage issues because I don’t care. I think it’s great though, anything to piss off the Democrats. I wish they’d start locking up people who want gender assignment surgery for the mentally ill people that they are and taking children away from gay couples who have no business adopting, too. Wow, ok so why exactly should anyone listen to anything you have to say from now on in this thread? You’re becoming more hateful, partisan and unhinged with each subsequent post you’ve made on this issue. And constantly saying how everyone else is an idiot doesn’t look too great for you either. You’ve pretty much just showed your cards here, and it looks like a 2, 7 off suit. I’d go ahead and fold at this point if I were you. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/117 "2012-05-11T15:24:09Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Actually I haven’t. I don’t really pay much attention to gay marriage issues because I don’t care. I think it’s great though, anything to piss off the Democrats. I wish they’d start locking up people who want gender assignment surgery for the mentally ill people that they are and taking children away from gay couples who have no business adopting, too. Is there are Martin Jekyll I could speak to? I don’t think I’m going to have luck reasoning with this particular bucket of shit. In any case, if you don’t know about the constitutional amendment, I suggest that you’re too ignorant to debate 21st century American politics. How about you do the basic research to get to the level of the average participant here and get back to us? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/118 "2012-05-11T15:25:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No one is 100% right on all issues. But the Dems are certainly much, much closer on the vast majority of issues. Most Republican stances are for things that would make the country worse. For instance, they think cutting public sector workers during a recovery is a good idea, that’s just stupid. Couple the nonsense economic beliefs with the absurd social positions and you’ve got a political party that only the ignorant, the misinformed and people with a blind, team-mentality would vote for. Which are you? The GOP care too much about social issues and it will cost them long term. But on economics neither party makes any sense. The GOP are mentally retarded since about 2002 on tax policy but the Democrats are mentally retarded on issues of free trade and corporate taxation, as well as being moderately stupid on some environmental policies. The problem with voting for Democrats is the risk of them saddling us with programs that will probably be disastrous long term (like Obamacare.) The risk with voting for the GOP is they refuse to generate any government revenue which creates problems of its own, but I think those problems are less than the problems of creating lots of new entitlements. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/119 "2012-05-11T15:27:24Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You’re a moron, he didn’t get away with it because his father had pull but simply because society did not care about this. People would laugh at you if you called this a “criminal assault” in 1965, literally laugh at you. I just love this “It was legal and even if it wasn’t people were not prosecuted for it back then, so therefore it logically follows that it was ethically and morally the correct thing to do”. Please tell it again. Maybe it will get better in your 5th telling. As you’ve been told - it’s not so much the event in the past that is telling here. Many of us have done stupid things that we regret. Romney however seems to have done stupid things that he either totally forgets due to some cognitive impairment, or he did stupid things that he does not particularly regret. This **current** behavior of his shows us what kind of man he is **today**. And it does not look good. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/120 "2012-05-11T15:28:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Is there are Martin Jekyll I could speak to? I don’t think I’m going to have luck reasoning with this particular bucket of shit. > > In any case, if you don’t know about the constitutional amendment, I suggest that you’re too ignorant to debate 21st century American politics. How about you do the basic research to get to the level of the average participant here and get back to us? There’s no constitutional amendment to define marriage as between a man and a woman, people have randomly talked about one for years but it has no chance of passing 3/4ths of the states so is a totally irrelevant thing. I was genuinely unaware Romney had come out in favor of it, and since I don’t care about gay marriage at all I was not likely to stumble upon this information unless it was really prominent. I spend hours each day reading news and hadn’t stumbled upon it, but I’m more than beyond the average participant in this thread when it comes to general knowledge about politics so I’m comfortable staying with you right now, and don’t need to go do any research. There’s no one that could possibly know every position of every Presidential candidate, especially since they change continuously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=7)