# There's no Pit thread on the Romney bullying story yet, so . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582 "2012-05-11T02:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/141 "2012-05-11T16:12:30Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > George Bush (not the real one, the younger one) said that when he was young and stupid, he was young and stupid. We give kids a pass for things, and I give Mitt a pass for being a bully in high school. > > But you are wrong in saying the 60s was a Long Time Ago and so does not matter. Romney dodged the draft as young man in the 60s. That cost him my vote. That’s a pretty dumb reason not to vote for Romney. Obama would never have gone to Vietnam had he been of age at the time, it’s a foolish criteria to judge a Presidential candidate on–and I’m a retired career Army officer. I don’t think military experience or doing legal things to avoid the draft should disqualify you from the Presidency, and I don’t cast my votes based on those things. Glorification of the military or military service is inherently anathema to a true democracy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/142 "2012-05-11T16:16:01Z")
I have done some wicked things, and a few mean things. I remember the mean things, my conscience takes them out and polishes them, keeps them bright and clear in my memory. I’ll simply be sitting, doing something, or doing nothing much at all, and wham! a regret spasm, a shame flashback. How could I possibly have done such a rotten thing? And I’m talking about stuff decades gone, done to people who, for all I know, have been taking the dirt nap for years. Things I have apologized for, atoned for, made right as best I could. Makes no difference. I’d like to hit the switch on those synapses, flick them to the “off” position. I could comfort myself by saying it makes me a better person, but I don’t really believe that, its what I do today that is who I am, not what I did then. So, if Mittens it telling the truth about not remembering, there is something deeply different about him and I. Something foundational, something beyond differences of political persuasion and/or religious conviction. Maybe its nothing important, maybe only a tiny minority of us are afflicted with such a pointless and self-destructive regret. My reaction is largely instinctual, perhaps, but I don’t like it. Not one little bit. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/143 "2012-05-11T16:16:24Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > My positions on mentally ill persons who want gender reassignment therapy and homosexuals are extremely well established on these boards: > > [Three parents - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387286) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7905768&postcount=205](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7905768&postcount=205) > > I know I’ve been involved in more discussions on the topic than that, but those are the only two I was able to easily find. > > It is absolutely not trolling but a genuine belief of mine that I have maintained on these boards for years, and I resent the implication that I’m saying it just to troll people. Now you being a Republican makes sense. You’re full of delusions that you think are knowledge. Funny that you never struck my radar as a completely worthless human being. But I guess sometimes they fly low. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/144 "2012-05-11T16:16:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > My positions on mentally ill persons who want gender reassignment therapy and homosexuals are extremely well established on these boards . . .It is absolutely not trolling but a genuine belief of mine that I have maintained on these boards for years, and I resent the implication that I’m saying it just to troll people. Wow. Well, I certainly won’t start yet another pit thread on this, then, since you already know quite well what most of us think of how much you hate and disdain us. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/145 "2012-05-11T16:24:15Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > That’s a pretty dumb reason not to vote for Romney. Obama would never have gone to Vietnam had he been of age at the time, it’s a foolish criteria to judge a Presidential candidate on–and I’m a retired career Army officer. I don’t think military experience or doing legal things to avoid the draft should disqualify you from the Presidency, and I don’t cast my votes based on those things. > > Glorification of the military or military service is inherently anathema to a true democracy. You’re not a real conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/146 "2012-05-11T16:30:25Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > My positions on mentally ill persons who want gender reassignment therapy and homosexuals are extremely well established on these boards: > > [Three parents - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387286) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7905768&postcount=205](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7905768&postcount=205) > > I know I’ve been involved in more discussions on the topic than that, but those are the only two I was able to easily find. > > It is absolutely not trolling but a genuine belief of mine that I have maintained on these boards for years, and I resent the implication that I’m saying it just to troll people. Since people seem to be ganging up on you, I, for one, want to praise you for your loud trumpeting of your views. You aren’t one of those posters who hide their stupidity, bigotry, and fundamental inhumanity; you’re right out there trumpeting it. Kudos to you Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/147 "2012-05-11T16:41:53Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > My positions on mentally ill persons who want gender reassignment therapy and homosexuals are extremely well established on these boards: > > [Three parents - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387286) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7905768&postcount=205](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7905768&postcount=205) > > I know I’ve been involved in more discussions on the topic than that, but those are the only two I was able to easily find. > > It is absolutely not trolling but a genuine belief of mine that I have maintained on these boards for years, and I resent the implication that I’m saying it just to troll people. Wow. You’re a literal monster. I didn’t know that about you. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/148 "2012-05-11T16:52:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wow. You’re a literal monster. I didn’t know that about you. I know, I totally had him pegged as a borderline rational conservative. But he thinks homosexuals _shouldn’t be able to vote_. I don’t think Pat Robertson is that evil. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/149 "2012-05-11T16:52:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wow. You’re a literal monster. I didn’t know that about you. Seriously. That list gave me the willies. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/150 "2012-05-11T17:04:03Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > My problem isn’t that Mr. Romney was a bully fifty years ago. > Quite a number of former bullies have grown up to be perfectly normal adults. > But, not **remembering** being a bully? > Really? > Was it that common to forcibly cut another guy’s hair? > So common that you don’t remember doing it? > > I have a very hard time believing that. I only skimmed the thread, but I haven’t seen **Martin Hyde** address this idea. **Martin** , let’s say bullying is par for the course. Skip that whole argument. Do you sincerely believe he doesn’t remember it happening? Or alternately, do you think it is fine to lie and pretend it was nothing, even after 5 other participants have described the memory in detail as something that stuck with them as “I did something wrong that day”? The fact that 2012 Mitt is lame enough to wish it away, instead of manning up, is the part where it is relevant to the \*current \*campaign. Most of us did stupid and cruel shit as kids (I’ll even give him a break that 18yo is a “kid”). But we all remember those moments. I could potentially forgive 1965 Mitt, if 2012 Mitt wasn’t such a weasel about it. * * * Bonus: [omg Obama was worse!](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/conservatives-counter-claims-mitt-romney-a-bully-obama-worse-article-1.1076353?localLinksEnabled=false) “We have uncovered somebody who has actually admitted to engaging in real inappropriate behavior as a youth,” Fox News host Sean Hannity said". Haha. “Uncovered” meaning: turning the pages of Obama’s own memoir. And from the description, Obama was simultaneously both victim and bully (and considerably younger) in the incident in question, and is adult enough to acknowledge his behavior as wrong. Not to mention, cognizant and honest enough to recall his childhood. Special thanks to whoever used the phrase “paper towel tube” here. Always hilarious, but Perfectly apt for this thread. Do you think Martin can get 60+ pages out of this? He’s an amateur next to **SA**. And I’ll be damned… I gained some respect for GWB today. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/151 "2012-05-11T17:05:05Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Since people seem to be ganging up on you, I, for one, want to praise you for your loud trumpeting of your views. You aren’t one of those posters who hide their stupidity, bigotry, and fundamental inhumanity; you’re right out there trumpeting it. Kudos to you Martin. Well, it certainly shows why he’s in Romney’s camp. They both pretty much have no empathy whatsoever for other human beings. Especially if they can be classified as “other”. After all, they’re not really like us are they? Why they’re not even human! ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/152 "2012-05-11T17:17:23Z")
A few other items that should probably be on that list: I believe pedestrians are primarily at fault when hit by a car. I believe old people should pay double the taxes as they aren’t really using their money anymore. I believe charitable donations should be taxed so as to discourage people from accepting handouts. I believe the “arts” should be outlawed. I believe the IQ test is flawed as it resulted in a low score for me. I believe the 5 question intelligence test on [FunQuizzesAndPuzzles.com/Kto6thGrade](http://FunQuizzesAndPuzzles.com/Kto6thGrade) is a very accurate test and should be set as the standard. I believe everyone not named **Martin Hyde** is a stupid idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/153 "2012-05-11T17:32:49Z")
For those who say this is disqualifying, or at least indicative of a lasting character flaw for Romney, did you vote for Clinton in 1996, after it was known what he did to Paula Jones? How do you reconcile these positions? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/154 "2012-05-11T17:32:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wow. You’re a literal monster. I didn’t know that about you. You were one of the people arguing with me in one of those threads. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/155 "2012-05-11T17:35:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Right, because one side of the political spectrum is absolutely right on 100% of issues and we should never have governing from the other side. No, I’ll just leave it at America should never again have a Republican President. So you disagree. No skin off my nose. I’m used to watching people be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/156 "2012-05-11T17:35:44Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > A few other items that should probably be on that list: > > I believe pedestrians are primarily at fault when hit by a car. They are, often times. No idea on the statistics though. > [@](#): > > I believe old people should pay double the taxes as they aren’t really using their money anymore. I don’t agree with that. > [@](#): > > I believe charitable donations should be taxed so as to discourage people from accepting handouts. I don’t agree with that. > [@](#): > > I believe the “arts” should be outlawed. I don’t agree with that. > [@](#): > > I believe the IQ test is flawed as it resulted in a low score for me. IQ tests are not really a good measure of intelligence, and I have a low opinion of people who put a lot of weight in them. > [@](#): > > I believe the 5 question intelligence test on [FunQuizzesAndPuzzles.com/Kto6thGrade](http://FunQuizzesAndPuzzles.com/Kto6thGrade) is a very accurate test and should be set as the standard. Lol. > [@](#): > > I believe everyone not named **Martin Hyde** is a stupid idiot. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/157 "2012-05-11T17:37:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I know, I totally had him pegged as a borderline rational conservative. But he thinks homosexuals _shouldn’t be able to vote_. > > I don’t think Pat Robertson is that evil. I’ve never actually said that, and if you had read at least one of the linked threads I submitted you’d see that I explain that in those threads as well. I believe homosexuality (and especially GID–which is still in the DSM-IV) is a mental illness, I do not believe it should disqualify you from voting. In most states just a mental illness diagnosis will not result in losing your voting rights, in some states a _civil commitment_ can bar you from voting in the future. I wouldn’t support someone losing their right to vote if their only mental illness was homosexuality or GID, but if certain State laws lead to that so be it–that’d be something that State should resolve but I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. I’d think it was wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/158 "2012-05-11T17:37:37Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > And honestly, I don’t believe for a minute that forty years ago, it was socially acceptable for teenagers to assault each other in school. The fact that the other people involved in the assault felt bad about demonstrates that Romney’s is the outlier. Yeah, forty-seven years ago it probably was “socially acceptable” to cut a long-haired kid’s hair. That was 1965, when the Beatles had only arrived a year earlier and long hair was a really hot topic. “Long hair” was a bugaboo for a lot of people for nearly ten years–and in the first two or three years it was the source of a lot of irrational hatred. Someone mentioned calling the police: in 1965, a cop called to a forced hair-cutting would probably have offered to hold down the victim while he was given a brush cut. As long as no one pulled a knife there would never have been a police report. The school administration might have imposed disciplinary action depending on the school’s policy on fighting. In fact, while I think that Mitt denying that he recalls the incident is unlikely in the extreme, I don’t really have a problem with him claiming he had no thought that the kid was actually gay. Accusations of being “queer” in an all-male boarding school at the time was a standard insult and any number of guys were subjected to that accusation. On the other hand, the idea that anyone actually was homosexual was so foreign to most guys’ understanding of the world, that few guys hurling those insults actually believed that they even could be true, much less that they might be. (Note the comment on Alan Sues earlier in the thread. He actualy was gay, but the common understanding among most viewers was that he was putting on an act.) Homosexuals were so different, (in the minds of most guys), that they would have been viewed as aliens from another planet. These beliefs and attitudes would have changed pretty drastically within just five years, but for 1965, Mitt’s reported comments about the hair and his current comments about homosexuality seem accurate. As to the fellow students currently expressing remorse: They might have felty badly after the deed was done, particularly when they saw how it affected him, but none of them seem to have felt the need, at the time, to report the incident or to speak up in support of the victim if he had reported it. Bullying (and hazing) was considered part of life, particularly in male-only boarding schools. Some instructors would have put a stop to it if it “got out of hand” (in their judgment), but no one thought it was not a common event. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/159 "2012-05-11T17:40:11Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > I only skimmed the thread, but I haven’t seen **Martin Hyde** address this idea. > > **Martin** , let’s say bullying is par for the course. Skip that whole argument. Do you sincerely believe he doesn’t remember it happening? Or alternately, do you think it is fine to lie and pretend it was nothing, even after 5 other participants have described the memory in detail as something that stuck with them as “I did something wrong that day”? I have an extremely good memory, but a lot of people I know from High School fail to remember fairly notable events that really stand out in my mind, so either lots of people are liars or lots of people don’t actually have a very good recall from their High School days. It’s plausible if some of Romney’s friends found it really a big deal at the time they would remember it, but it’s plausible that Romney didn’t think twice about it (showing how much of a bully he was at the time), especially if this was a pattern of behavior for him at that age. It’s plausible he’s lying, too. It’s basically an unknowable, it wouldn’t surprise me if he remembers but it wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t, either. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582/160 "2012-05-11T17:45:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > No, I’ll just leave it at America should never again have a Republican President. > > So you disagree. No skin off my nose. I’m used to watching people be wrong. I think that makes you an idiot, I think depending on the circumstances we should have a Democratic President or a Republican President, to me it’s all dependent on the specifics. Only a fool would make such a blanket and forward-reaching statement. But I’m used to be people being wrong too. For example some people think the fucking retarded name “Kayla” is a good name for a child and name their children that, when obviously it isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-pit-thread-on-the-romney-bullying-story-yet-so/621582.md?page=9)