# There's no such thing as unconditional love. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899 "2010-04-12T23:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/1 "2010-04-12T23:52:51Z")
Except and unless the definition you use is love that encompasses every single human being on earth, without any exceptions. Because anything else, by definition, includes conditions. Even if the condition is as simple as being personally acquainted with the object of love. Considering it casually, I don’t think that unconditional love exists in anyone. The only person who comes to mind is the Dalai Lama, and even him…maybe he comes close. And maybe this isn’t a great debate, or maybe it’s no debate at all. Because about the only people who would argue the premise aren’t likely to be into arguing at all…we’ll soon see. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/2 "2010-04-12T23:57:52Z")
There is quite possibly someone, somewhere with just the right type of brain damage to love everyone unconditionally. And I’m sure someone will be in to say that God/Jesus/whatever has unconditional love. But then, so what? Of what value is unconditional love? Why is it admirable or desirable? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/3 "2010-04-12T23:58:44Z")
I have usually heard the term “unconditional love” in reference to specifically targeted love, where the “unconditional” part means that you don’t exact any conditions from the specific person/place/thing being loved. So, if I unconditionally loved chocolate ice cream, I would still love it if it tasted like fecal matter. (I don’t unconditionally love chocolate ice cream.) I wouldn’t have to love strawberry ice cream to unconditionally love chocolate ice cream, though. I have never heard that the “unconditional” part of “unconditional love” means “undirected”, so I reject your thesis. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/4 "2010-04-13T00:27:23Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I have usually heard the term “unconditional love” in reference to specifically targeted love, where the “unconditional” part means that you don’t exact any conditions from the specific person/place/thing being loved. So, if I unconditionally loved chocolate ice cream, I would still love it if it tasted like fecal matter. (I don’t unconditionally love chocolate ice cream.) I wouldn’t have to love strawberry ice cream to unconditionally love chocolate ice cream, though. > > I have never heard that the “unconditional” part of “unconditional love” means “undirected”, so I reject your thesis. I appreciate the attempt, but I don’t think it holds. Why would you love chocolate ice cream, but not love strawberry? Isn’t it because you love the taste/appearance/idea of chocolate, rather than strawberry? Then doesn’t it mean that if the aspects of chocolate that arouse love in your changed, you would stop loving it? In other words, is it in any way possible or likely that you WOULD continue to love chocolate ice cream if it tasted like feces? Whatever it is that causes you to feel love is a “condition” required for you to keep loving. Unconditional love of a particular human being must mean unconditional love of all human beings, otherwise there is a condition present in some human beings and not others that makes some “lovable”. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/5 "2010-04-13T00:40:22Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Except and unless the definition you use is love that encompasses every single human being on earth, without any exceptions. > > Because anything else, by definition, includes conditions. Even if the condition is as simple as being personally acquainted with the object of love. But it’s a colloquialism; not meant to be taken literally. It has a meaning in that it is used to describe something. Just like so many other colloquialisms in life. When you say “I’m starving” it doesn’t usually mean that you’re actually starving; it means that you feel quite hungry. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/6 "2010-04-13T00:47:44Z")
There shouldn’t be unconditional love. Any animal that feels unconditional love would refuse to retaliate against threats to protect itself or its kin. And it would not punish those who undermined the social order by cheating or abnormal behavior. And imagine an animal that felt unconditional love being asked to go hunting. Any animal that felt true unconditional love would be exploited and killed by animals that didn’t. The only people who feel true unconditional love probably either have brain damage or are high on drugs. Its not our natural state. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/7 "2010-04-13T00:59:23Z")
There’s no such thing as a perfect circle, parallel lines, or value free science, but we find the construct useful. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/8 "2010-04-13T01:31:58Z")
I don’t think there is anything my daughter could do to make me stop loving her. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/9 "2010-04-13T01:44:10Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I don’t think there is anything my daughter could do to make me stop loving her. I think that the OP is arguing that you have put a condition on your love: that is, the condition that the recipient of said love be your daughter. Therefore, not ‘unconditional’. Personally, I don’t buy that argument, but I \*think \*that’s the position of the OP. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/10 "2010-04-13T01:47:05Z")
Hi **Stoid** , Is there any substantive difference between your claim “There’s no such thing as unconditional love” and an alternative formulation, “The thing people call ‘unconditional love’ should actually be called ‘love that is unconditional except for the condition that it is directed toward some specific entity’”? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/11 "2010-04-13T02:01:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There is quite possibly someone, somewhere with just the right type of brain damage to love everyone unconditionally. And I’m sure someone will be in to say that God/Jesus/whatever has unconditional love. > > But then, so what? Of what value is unconditional love? Why is it admirable or desirable? 5 minutes into a thread, dude; 5 minutes. Get another trick, Shetland equine. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/12 "2010-04-13T02:06:16Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I think that the OP is arguing that you have put a condition on your love: that is, the condition that the recipient of said love be your daughter. Therefore, not ‘unconditional’. > > Personally, I don’t buy that argument, but I \*think \*that’s the position of the OP. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. :rolleyes: Apparently then we have a gold contender in the next Pedantic Rhetorical Equivocation time trials. I have a friend like this, but it takes a at least a six pack before we argue whether or not Iraqis ‘participated’ in Operation Desert Storm. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/13 "2010-04-13T02:08:41Z")
Stoid has discovered the tautology. Congratulations! Next week, she’ll try out her first allegory. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/14 "2010-04-13T03:10:44Z")
I try to as the Lord has commanded me to love all people but in practice that’s quite hard I must admit with the existence of Osama Bin Laden and other evil men in this world. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/15 "2010-04-13T04:13:56Z")
Dude. I just found another one. How can someone say they’ll love another person “forever”. I mean, forever is, like, infinite time. There is no such thing as infinite time. And even if there were… No one lives an infinite life. Dude, how stupid is that phrase? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/16 "2010-04-13T04:18:38Z")
I am not a child psychologist, but I understand that conditional love, when directed at small children, can be fairly toxic. Those who use the expression or retraction of love to manipulate can be pretty loathsome, or so I imagine. ## Perhaps “Unconditional love” means !(conditional) love. This does not substantiate my argument, but might help anyway: [Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions](http://www.answers.com/topic/unconditional-love-1) I suppose somebody could love another unconditionally, to the extent that the beloved was wise enough not to test certain unstated or even unconceived boundaries. To say that no conditions are placed on one’s love doesn’t necessarily imply that such love could survive any circumstance or behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/17 "2010-04-13T06:25:54Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I try to as the Lord has commanded me to love all people but in practice that’s quite hard I must admit with the existence of Osama Bin Laden and other evil men in this world. Well, try harder, lest you burn in Hell. Those are the rules, as I understand them. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/18 "2010-04-13T07:33:10Z")
Unconditional love, as defined by the OP, is impossible. But that’s why it’s not defined in that manner. The closest you can get is agape love, which really is more about respecting human beings as such. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > 5 minutes into a thread, dude; 5 minutes. > Get another trick, Shetland equine. If you’d actually read his post, you’d notice he actually, for once, did not do the same trick. Yeah, he mentioned God and Jesus, but for once did not disparage anyone who believes in them/Him/Her/whatever. Or, if he did, he actually was a bit subtle. Which is still slightly different. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/19 "2010-04-13T07:48:02Z")
This is just a meaningless argument over semantics. “Unconditional Love” means what **begbert2** said in post #3. I, too, reject the OP’s thesis, as excessively nitpicky, fussily pedantic, and dumb. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899/20 "2010-04-13T11:37:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And I’m sure someone will be in to say that God/Jesus/whatever has unconditional love. It won’t be me. On this subject we may just agree. Yipes! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-such-thing-as-unconditional-love/535899.md?page=2)