# There's no "there" there: Breathless reports (with video!) of Joe Biden "having lost it" are untrue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 21, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159 "2024-06-21T15:59:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/21 "2024-06-22T21:39:28Z")
All of the above being true, as it may, I was just offered an ad by and featuring Mr. Biden on YouTube, imploring me to start taking the election seriously. He looked like someone took a low-quality wax figurine of Joe Biden and called in the animatronics department from 1970s Disneyworld to make it move. He might be better served by using fewer means to stretch and mold the skin of his face, and he should probably work with a physical therapist to build some mobility into his shoulders and practice moving his arms more naturally, in the mirror - even if it hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/22 "2024-07-03T21:15:08Z")
Well so, the non-creative editing [evidence](https://www.reddit.com/r/grammar/comments/p15prv/proof_versus_evidence/) for Biden being “past due”, that I’m aware of: 1. Poor showing at the debates (could be that he had a cold). 2. Description by Robert Hur of Joe Biden as being forgetful, difficult to converse with, slow-seeming (though, this description does not match transcript). 3. A refusal to release video of said interview, which would offer proof for Hur’s description versus the transcript view (the transcript could be modified or slowness/loss of focus/etc. might not come through as apparently in a transcript). 4. The [Financial Times](https://on.ft.com/3VXTCLU) (like the British WSJ) reports, “One person familiar with the situation said some of the intelligence officials who give Biden his daily intelligence briefing had noticed his decline as early as last year, undermining claims from White House and campaign political figures about the president’s mental acuity.” In general, I’d say that the non-partisan evidence is starting to lean the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/23 "2024-07-04T15:44:49Z")
More reporting from a traditional news source: > [@](#): > > he also has moments, particularly later in the evening, when his thoughts seem jumbled and he trails off mid-sentence or seems confused. Sometimes he doesn’t grasp the finer points of policy details. He occasionally forgets people’s names, stares blankly and moves slowly around the room. [https://apnews.com/article/biden-age-election-debate-trump-7c366fda83a697265d9ecc77e8a32fd1](https://apnews.com/article/biden-age-election-debate-trump-7c366fda83a697265d9ecc77e8a32fd1) Which sounds pretty strongly like a text book case of beginning senility - and which we can only presume will get worse. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/24 "2024-07-04T16:05:46Z")
I’m inclined to immediately discount anything that comes from “one person familiar with the situation”, or “sources say”, on any topic. Who said it, and do they have documentation for it? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/25 "2024-07-04T16:40:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m inclined to immediately discount anything that comes from “one person familiar with the situation”, or “sources say”, on any topic. Who said it, and do they have documentation for it? You ok with “Sources say Trump wears diapers?” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/26 "2024-07-04T16:45:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m inclined to immediately discount anything that comes from “one person familiar with the situation”, or “sources say”, on any topic. Who said it, and do they have documentation for it? The FT says that they have a source who heard from multiple people. The AP is saying, to quote: “This story is based on interviews with two dozen people who have spent time with the president privately” Since the FT is a serious source, I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that their guy isn’t some wacko, inventing stories. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/27 "2024-07-04T17:07:34Z")
Right from Biden and the White House. His poor performance was due to jet lag from a trip that ended two weeks ago. After he spent a week in Camp David. He wasn’t on any cold medicine and they are not blaming illness. Without a named source: Biden’s work day starts at 11AM with plenty of naps. How do you convince unengaged voters that he is worth voting for? Voting against someone is not enough for voters who would otherwise not vote. Those votes are needed in swing states. > **[Biden blames jet lag and travel for poor debate performance](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4ngx67qle6o.amp)** > > The president's comments come after a first Democrat in Congress called for him to withdraw from the election. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/28 "2024-07-04T17:14:20Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > More reporting from a traditional news source: > > [Biden at 81: Sharp, focused but sometimes confused, forgetful | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/biden-age-election-debate-trump-7c366fda83a697265d9ecc77e8a32fd1) Interestingly … upon reading through that entire article, the writer actually commits to print support for four bullet points in my OP above. Doesn’t mean Biden doesn’t have _other_ things going on—but I still stand by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/29 "2024-07-04T18:54:26Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > How do you convince unengaged voters that he is worth voting for? Voting against someone is not enough for voters who would otherwise not vote. Those votes are needed in swing states. A billion times this. Right now the only “fighting” the Biden campaign is doing is scolding people for mentioning their doubts and concerns. It’s been a week and Biden has not been scheduled for ANY event that could help people put aside their doubts and concerns—NOTHING unscripted and live. (The ballyhooed George Stephanopoulos interview **is not going to be live. It’s going to be taped and edited.** This will NOT budge the image of Biden as being a frail person in need of protection.) “Fighting” seems to include _nothing_ that could actually change people’s perceptions of Biden as lacking the stamina and sharpness to carry out the Presidency. Fact being ignored by Biden and his team: _The Democratic Party base alone will not be enough to defeat Trump._ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/30 "2024-07-04T19:25:59Z")
Ultimately, we in this country are not voting for either Biden or trump. We are voting for which _party_ we want to hold the presidency: the normal if center-left Democrats or the quite abnormal hard right MAGAs in the long-since-slipped disguise of Republicans. This is not actually about voting for personalities or even individual politicians. Making it about Biden or trump is a mistake. It’s about what they and their apparatus (and their replacement should either become utterly infirm or dead while in office) would do. The problem is that Americans aren’t used to thinking of it in parliamentary terms where they’re voting for a party and get a leader along the way. But that’s what’s happening in recent decades and the choice is especially stark right now. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/31 "2024-07-04T19:36:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Ultimately, we in this country are not voting for either Biden or trump. > > We are voting for which _party_ we want to hold the presidency: the normal if center-left Democrats or the quite abnormal hard right MAGAs in the long-since-slipped disguise of Republicans. > > This is not actually about voting for personalities or even individual politicians. Making it about Biden or trump is a mistake. It’s about what they and their apparatus (and their replacement should either become utterly infirm or dead while in office) would do. > > The problem is that Americans aren’t used to thinking of it in parliamentary terms where they’re voting for a party and get a leader along the way. But that’s what’s happening in recent decades and the choice is especially stark right now. I don’t believe that’s true. A large percentage of voters vote for party only. There are very few always voters who flip between parties. What we do have is a large percentage of unengaged potential voters who don’t believe either party has their best interests at heart and nothing much will change no matter how they vote. Telling them one guy is bad isn’t good enough. You have to give them someone to vote for or they won’t bother to vote. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/32 "2024-07-04T19:37:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > This is not actually about voting for personalities or even individual politicians. Making it about Biden or trump is a mistake. It’s about what they and their apparatus (and their replacement should either become utterly infirm or dead while in office) would do. Heartily seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/33 "2024-07-04T19:39:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Telling them one guy is bad isn’t good enough. You have to give them someone to vote for or they won’t bother to vote. Exactly. There is no difference between what Democrats are doing this year and what they did in 2016. They are nominating an establishment candidate that most voters are either meh or unhappy about, and saying, _“Suck it up and deal with it. Your only alternative is a fascist crook, so we know you’re going to vote for us.”_ That didn’t work in 2016 - and that was an election in which Hillary _led in the polls throughout._ Right now, Biden is _behind_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/34 "2024-07-04T19:42:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > “This story is based on interviews with two dozen people who have spent time with the president privately” > > Since the FT is a serious source, I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that their guy isn’t some wacko, inventing stories. None of which are named, so the line is worthless. I mean, lots of Republicans have spent time with the President privately. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/35 "2024-07-04T19:44:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Telling them one guy is bad isn’t good enough. You have to give them someone to vote for or they won’t bother to vote. This. Americans are used to wanting a President who they believe represents them. We have no tradition (as in the parliamentary system) of thinking mainly of the parties involved without reference to the individuals who head those parties. On debate night, an MSNBC host made an observation worth considering: > [@](#): > > “ **The president is an avatar for the American people** ,” Reid said, offering support for Biden’s record as president. “ **But you cannot become president again when America looks at you and that avatar to them looks broken**.” > **[On MSNBC, the mood turns somber following Biden’s debate performance |...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/media/msnbc-biden-trump-debate/index.html)** > > On MSNBC, the mood Thursday night was somber. (My bolding in the second quotation.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/36 "2024-07-04T19:50:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I don’t believe that’s true. A large percentage of voters vote for party only. There are very few always voters who flip between parties. What we do have is a large percentage of unengaged potential voters who don’t believe either party has their best interests at heart and nothing much will change no matter how they vote. Telling them one guy is bad isn’t good enough. You have to give them someone to vote for or they won’t bother to vote. Oh, I agree with your conclusion. I totally agree that the election will be decided by what the “a pox on both your houses” and the “I can’t be bothered” crowds do. Or more ominously, don’t do. And in general, under the rest of the current electoral situation, the vast majority of apathy non-votes will amount to a net vote for trump. Hence dangerous; very dangerous. My point was that it’s _because_ they mistakenly make it about personalities that we’re in this pickle. Now we’re not going to change decades of emotional accomodation in 2 months. So as you suggest, the Ds need to put somebody out there to vote FOR, not just AGAINST trump. I have zero disagreement with your there. Whether Biden still is, or can be rehabilitated to, be that person is certainly an open question worthy of debate. Just not a question I choose to entertain today in this thread. My point was only that we’re in this pickle because the voters are confused about what voting means in the modern 2-party era. Much like every 4 years some large bunch of Americans are amazed to learn they don’t vote for the president. Instead they vote for state electors pledged to a candidate and the electors in their “college” choose the president. It’s a lot of players in our game of voting who fundamentally don’t know the rules of the game they’re playing, nor the stakes, nor really who the actual players on the political game field are. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/37 "2024-07-04T19:50:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You ok with “Sources say Trump wears diapers?” No. Not only is Trump’s level of bowel control completely irrelevant to how good a job he can actually do as President, but even if it were, you still need actual reliable sources of information. Now, of course, needing diapers is also not something to celebrate. There’s something deeply wrong with someone who proudly proclaims “Real Men Wear Diapers”, and chooses to go out in public that way. But that’s just a symptom; anyone who would do that, there was already something deeply wrong with them even before the diapers. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/38 "2024-07-04T19:54:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > You ok with “Sources say Trump wears diapers?” > > No. Not only is Trump’s level of bowel control completely irrelevant to how good a job he can actually do as President, but even if it were, you still need actual reliable sources of information. > > Now, of course, needing diapers is also not something to celebrate. There’s something deeply wrong with someone who proudly proclaims “Real Men Wear Diapers”, and chooses to go out in public that way. But that’s just a symptom; anyone who would do that, there was already something deeply wrong with them even before the diapers. So maybe I should have used Deep Throat as an example. Were you ok that W&B didn’t name their source? Do you dismiss all news reports that protect their sources? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/39 "2024-07-04T20:08:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > So maybe I should have used Deep Throat as an example. Were you ok that W&B didn’t name their source? They’re free to not name their source. And I’m free to then disregard what they’re saying. Their unnamed source might be a good basis for them to start further investigations, and uncover evidence that they can publicly reveal. Which, as I understand it, was actually the case, for Watergate. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159/40 "2024-07-04T20:43:25Z")
Not sure if this was posted anywhere, but Biden telling the governors that he won’t schedule any events after 8:00PM so he can get his sleep is an absolutely terrible look. What possessed him to say that? Just do it if you have to, don’t advertise it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-there-there-breathless-reports-with-video-of-joe-biden-having-lost-it-are-untrue/1003159.md?page=3)