# There's Rioting in Our Streets, Part 2
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [April 22, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010 "2010-04-22T17:42:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/21 "2010-04-23T09:26:31Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> Oh, that would be telling, hehehe. 😉
I’ve always suspected you own Kangaroo Bar.
😉
While the US Embassy thing might be interesting, not sure that you’ll actually get too much useful information. Look forward to your report if you do go.
Mrs Shibb was asking, a month or two back, if we should go to Thailand for a trip this summer. Her parents are there right now, as are a lot of her relatives. Not sure if her parents will try to come back; I know her Dad doesn’t much care for the place anymore, but Khun Yai rules the roost. They’re most likely in the south so I’m sure that they’re not in any sort of danger.
---
### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/22 "2010-04-23T10:08:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> Oh, that would be telling, hehehe. 😉
>
> But besides myself, the wife works for the government and has her own career. We’re very well settled here, come what may. Keeps life interesting.
>
> Now Australia and the US are advising its citizens not to travel to Thailand at all. I think Britain may have issued an earlier statement to that effect. I would certainly advise giving Bangkok a miss, but I think the rest of the country is okay for the time being. Russia even recently told its citizens just to bypass Bangkok and head straight for upcountry.
>
> And I received the following notice from the US Embassy here in Bangkok this afternoon. It would be interesting to attend, but I won’t be available for it on Monday:
>
> \*\*Message to the Americans in Thailand
>
> Town Hall meeting: Monday, April 26, 2010 at 2:00 p.m. at the J.W. Marriott, 4 Sukhumvit Road, Soi 2, Bangkok, in the large ballroom.
>
> You are invited to attend a Town Hall meeting on Monday. Ambassador Eric G. John, along with other officials from the Embassy, will be present to discuss the current situation in Bangkok.
>
> The Town Hall meeting for American citizens only will be held on Monday, April 26, 2010 at 2:00 p.m. at the J.W. Marriott, 4 Sukhumvit Road, Soi 2, Bangkok, in the large ballroom. The J.W. Marriott can be reached at 66-2-656-7700.
>
> Bring your passport or other form of U.S. citizenship! You must present proof of U.S. citizenship at the door in order to be allowed in to the Town Hall meeting. You will not be admitted without proof of U.S. citizenship.
>
> Acceptable forms of U.S. citizenship are:
> –U.S. passport,
> –U.S. birth certificate plus photo identification,
> –Consular Report of Birth Abroad plus photo identification, or
> –Naturalization Certificate.
>
> This is opportunity is intended for American citizens and is an off-the-record meeting intended to inform American citizens about the latest developments in Bangkok.
>
> The American Citizen Services Unit of the U.S. Embassy can be reached by phone at 66-2-205-4049 and by e-mail at [ACSBKK@State.gov](mailto:ACSBKK@State.gov). \*\*
Interesting …
I would love to come for a visit, but unfortunately my ability to travel is pretty much limited now to gimp friendly areas … and I would prefer to avoid any areas with insurrections because stuck in a chair is not so good for being able to run for ones life …
---
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/23 "2010-04-23T11:21:54Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#):
>
> … I’d be reluctant to wish a military dictatorship on anyone. And didn’t the military engage in rather a lot of human rights abuses in the 1980s? Military juntas usually do.
>
> I’m not saying the politicians are any great shakes, but I don’t see how a coup would be better.
My impression is that the biggest problem with the military governments here is their _incompetence_. The major decisions of the 2006 junta that I remember were foreign-investment restrictions that caused the stock market to crash, and were then rescinded, and some rules making it harder for tourists to drink beer. (The stock market crash and subsequent boom must have made some people rich so might have been clever rather than stupid. 😃 )
But the recent coups have been largely reactions _against_ corruption, rather than themselves corrupt.
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> Not all military coups are bad. Some are good, some are bad. The 2006 coup was very good; the 1991 one was very bad.
The 1991 coup itself was a relatively benevolent anti-corruption coup leading to an (unelected) government by Anand, one of the best P.M.'s in Thailand’s history. But then it got interesting. The junta, favoring democracy, ordered elections, Thais selected Narong to be P.M., the U.S. government responded that Thailand could pick whoever it wanted as P.M., but as a suspected drug dealer, Narong would not be allowed entrance to the U.S.A.! This led to a political impasse – it was Narong’s “turn” to be P.M., not anyone else’s, but it would be too embarassing to have a P.M. unable to attend U.N. meetings in New York – so Suchinda (coup leader) broke the impasse by becoming P.M. That was when things went down-hill, quite some time after the 1991 coup itself.
---
### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/24 "2010-04-23T12:36:12Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#):
>
> I’ve always suspected you own Kangaroo Bar.
And interesting thought, but the owner must not be a native English speaker.
[Link](http://www.kangaroo.bar-phuket.de/)
---
### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/25 "2010-04-23T13:43:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> And interesting thought, but the owner must not be a native English speaker.
> [Link](http://www.kangaroo.bar-phuket.de/)
That’s Patong (beach), I was thinking Patpong which is a small set of roads with a market and lots of bars right off of Silom. As I said, I never much cared for Patpong, so I may be confusing Kangaroo Bar with Star of Light.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/26 "2010-04-23T14:24:22Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#):
>
> That’s Patong (beach), I was thinking Patpong which is a small set of roads with a market and lots of bars right off of Silom. As I said, I never much cared for Patpong, so I may be confusing Kangaroo Bar with Star of Light.
Correct. Patong is way down South. Patpong is in Bangkok, near the scene of the blasts.
The bar in Patpong is actually called the Kangaroo Club. It and Star of Light are rather, ah, notorious. 😃
---
### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/27 "2010-04-23T14:47:52Z")
You are known here as “The Notorious Siam Sam”, not for nothing.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/28 "2010-04-23T15:05:22Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> … and some rules making it harder for tourists to drink beer.
That happened long before the coup, under Thaksin’s interior minister, Purachai Piemsomboon. It was his “clean-up” campaign that halted the flow of alcohol on religious holidays for everyone and enforced bar-closing hours.
---
### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/29 "2010-04-23T15:09:59Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#):
>
> You are known here as “The Notorious Siam Sam”, not for nothing.
Has anyone actually seen Sam and the bar owner together at the same time?
---
### Author:  [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/30 "2010-04-23T17:27:45Z")
As a Brit who is due to fly in to Bangkok in December this year, I’ll be watching developments with interest. Would we be best advised (if we were flying tomorrow, say) to book a connecting flight out of Bangkok immediately, not leaving the airport at all on foot? FTR, the British government currently has this to say:
> [@The Foreign & Commonwealth Office website](#):
>
> The overall level of the advice has changed; we currently advise against all but essential travel to Bangkok; against all travel to some specific areas of Thailand and all but essential travel to other specific areas of Thailand…We advise against all but essential travel to the city of Bangkok, in light of ongoing political demonstrations and outbreaks of violence within the city. This advice does not apply to passengers transiting Bangkok airport on their way to other destinations in Thailand or internationally…We advise against all travel to the Preah Vihear (Khaoi Pra Viharn in Thai) temple area, due to violence in the area. See the Local Travel section of this Travel Advice…
> We advise against all but essential travel to, or through, the far southern provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat and Songkhla, due to the insurgency in these areas. See the Terrorism section of this Travel Advice.
But it would be interesting (and quite possibly more useful) to get a local view on it.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/31 "2010-04-24T02:43:01Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#):
>
> As a Brit who is due to fly in to Bangkok in December this year, I’ll be watching developments with interest. Would we be best advised (if we were flying tomorrow, say) to book a connecting flight out of Bangkok immediately, not leaving the airport at all on foot? FTR, the British government currently has this to say:
>
> But it would be interesting (and quite possibly more useful) to get a local view on it.
You have to remember the situation is limited mainly to a very small area in central Bangkok, which is a huge city, and the airport is far, far outside of it. You would never want to leave the airport “on foot” even in normal times, as it’s way out in the middle of nowhere. There were two main protest sites, with the location of the April 10 clash almost literally just around the corner from Bangkok’s main backpacker enclave of Khao San Road, but that rally site has been abandoned.
If you were flying tomorrow, I would say try to avoid staying in Bangkok, because while you would probably not be affected very much at all at this moment if you avoided the small area where the protest is occurring now, the traffic is beginning to grow noticeably worse, having a knock-on effect throughout the rest of the city. There’s no telling now when the Skytrain and subway could be operating; they’ve shut down services a couple of times and ended it at 6pm last night (Friday night), again helping make traffic worse. And there’s no telling what could happen at any moment – martial law could be declared, a new rally site opened. Thailand remains largely safe, even Bangkok, as long as you steer clear of the main rally site – and the three deep-South provinces mentioned in your travel warning, due to the ongoing Muslim insurgency – but there remains an air of unpredictability. Of course, this is the sort of thing that could very well attract a certain sort of traveler. But many of the major shopping centers and hotels are closed, but that’s because they’re right there at or near the rally site. If you’re wantng to see those – including Siam Paragon, the largest shopping center in Southeast Asia, or many of the little shops in Siam Square – you’d be out of luck now. But the Old Bangkok area, and other draws like Chatuchak Park’s weekend market, are clear.
Despite all of the travel warnings, I would say come to Thailand and leave Bangkok for last, just so you can scope out the situation in-country.
As for this December, that’s eight months from now, and that can be a very long time in Thailand. The situation could be completely changed by then. That’s long enough for us to have even gone through a couple more governments, a la 2008! 😃
As safe as I still feel Bangkok largely remains now, the situation is fluid. Earlier this month in Vietnam’s Halong Bay, the wife and I met a Korean-American who had just finished medical school in Philadelphia and was traveling around Southeast Asia before starting his residency. He was flying to Bangkok the next day and asked us about the situation. I told him it could blow up at any minute or stay the same for weeks or months, there was just no telling. He was due to fly out the next day and stay on Khao San Road. That would have been April 10, the day of the big clash between protesters and soldiers that left 25 dead right by Khao San. Welcome to Thailand! Bet he has a story to tell the folks back home now. I recall his plan was not to spend long in Bangkok anyway, but to head upcountry, travel the length of Laos and fly back home from Phnom Penh, the start of his journey.
---
### Author:  [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/32 "2010-04-24T06:07:47Z")
Glad to see our man on the street back, Sam.
[Bill’s Poker Blog](http://www.billrini.com/) has some up close and personal photos of the conflict.
And some day you will have to tell us about Songkran.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/33 "2010-04-24T15:13:59Z")
I hate Songkran with all my heart and soul. The wife does too, and she’s Thai! Many Thais do. It was no coincidence that we left the country for Songkran.
The red shirts have softened their demands just a little. Now instead of demanding parliament be dissolved and elections held immediately, they want parliament dissolved a month from now. Prime Minister Abhisit today rejected that demand, unsurprisingly. My take on this: Whether he wants to dissolve parliament now and hold elections or not – and I believe he truly does not – I think there’s a high likelihood that the army has forbidden him from doing so anyway. That’s the consensus among the many reporters and editors of my acquaintance, Thai and farang (Western) alike, and I believe it’s probably true. I doubt there will be any parliamentary dissolution at all before October, because at the end of each September comes the annual military reshuffle, and the word is powerful elements in the military want this government making the assignments and not any caretaker or red-shirt government.
As for Monday’s Town Hall meeting for Americans with the ambassador, I’ve since learned the American ambassador’s wife is friends with Thaksin’s wife, Pojaman – or ex-wife now; they divorced a year or so ago, but everyone believes it’s just an attempt to hide some of his wealth – and they have lunch frequently. (Thaksin is in exile, but even though Pojaman has also been convicted of corruption and is facing a prison sentence, she’s out on bail for the appeal.) I have no idea how or even if this would color Ambassador Eric John’s view or what he has tro say, but it’s interesting to note.
There’s a short YouTube video [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34hSEPOC71g) of the red shirts and the launching of one or two of the grenades on Thursday night.
The death toll from Thursday stands at only one after all. The figure of three came from the deputy prime minister who addressed the nation on TV later that night. Where he got that number from, no one knows, but being deputy PM, everyone thought he knew what he was talking about, even the international agencies, and so ran with that. But he turns out to have been screwed. It was a 50-year-old Thai lady who died, on route to hospital, from shrapnel in her chest. Her daughter reported the red shirts tried to wrestle the body away from the ambulance attendants. Many if not all of the injured transported by ambulance were sent to nearby Chulalongkorn Hospital, the entrance to which is right there by the red-shirt barricades!
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/34 "2010-04-25T03:23:55Z")
BBC TV just reported the prime minister said the red-shirt site would be retaken soon, but the local press is not saying that. The reds themselves say they expect a crackdown within 48 hours, but they’re always expecting a crackdown within 48 hours.
In rejecting the reds’ 30-day deadline to dissove parliament, the PM appeared on air with the army chief, who is now in charge of the Bangkok operation and has also said a violent response is not the answer. You can see them in the photo with [this story](http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/04/25/politics/PM-rejects-deadline-30127886.html). However, the army chief is not necessarily the most powerful figure in the army, and the army spokesman has come out to say the use of force was very much still an option.
Interesting, too, that Anupong, the army chief, is considered a friend of Thaksin’s. In the coming military reshuffle, I believe the deputy army chief has been slated for the top job, and the reds want desperately to block that, because he’s very anti-Thaksin.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/35 "2010-04-25T03:42:12Z")
Well, the Thai-language news is reporting the 48-hour number now, but it’s not clear where they got that from. The red shirts have issued an appeal for more supporters to come into Bangkok now from upcountry – and NOT to wear red, sneaking in under the radar. They also seem to be asking the ones at the rally to change their shirts, making it more difficult to identify them, but it’s not clear if they really mean the ones already rallying or just the ones coming into Bangkok.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/36 "2010-04-25T06:22:53Z")
Okay, NOW the local press is reporting the prime minister vowing to retake the rally site soon. Story [here](http://bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/175725/thai-pm-vows-to-retake-bangkok-protest-site).
Could be showtime very soon.
---
### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2010, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/37 "2010-04-25T06:28:03Z")
This is sort of like putting out an ad that the surprise attack will come at 6:15 am this Thursday. Does no one there understand the element of surprise?
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/38 "2010-04-25T07:53:32Z")
That would entail logic.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2010, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/39 "2010-04-25T08:03:53Z")
A local Kiwi who goes by the name Stickman has included a section on the protests on his website, with photos he’s taken and some description. You can see that [here](http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/BangkokRedShirtProtest/BangkokRedShirtProtest.htm). I’ve met Stick a number of times, and he’s a decent sort.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010/40 "2010-04-25T15:20:46Z")
Hehe. Just so you’ll know it’s not all doom and gloom here, we’ve had [this story](http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/04/18/chinese-man-sets-fire-to-pattaya-hotel-after-lady-refusal/) of a Chinese man in Pattaya who tried to set fire to his hotel room and burn down the establishment when staff prevented him from taking three (3) bargirls upstairs with him.
## Excerpt: **“At the scene, police were confronted by Mr. Preeda Yuwanit, the hotel manager, who explained that the offender, Mr. Shen Wen Liang from China, had attempted to burn down the hotel after night staff refused him entry to the hotel in the company of 3 Pattaya bar girls. Mr. Liang was protesting his innocence in an extremely intoxicated state.”**
I don’t blame Mr. Liang for being pissed off. This _is_ Pattaya we’re talking about after all, even if he really was getting the girls for his tour clients. Alas, they should have stayed in the [Penthouse Hotel](http://www.penthousehotel.com/index_1.html), whose motto seems to be “The More, the Merrier,” as evidenced by a German of my acquaintance who not too long ago locked himself into one of their rooms with six girls for three nights. His birthday, I think. Or maybe he just pretended it was, dunno.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-rioting-in-our-streets-part-2/537010.md?page=3)