# These are the best of times **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623 "2009-02-13T01:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/21 "2009-02-13T04:06:46Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > There’s a big difference between the “finance” and “banking” sector here. I’ve spoken to financial advisors who definitely get it. The banking CEOs who testified in front of Congress? Not getting it. What, exactly, don’t they get? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/22 "2009-02-13T04:18:26Z")
When the peasants amass with torches and pitchforks, it ain’t a pep rally. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/23 "2009-02-13T04:19:36Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > What, exactly, don’t they get? Accounting and Accountability? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/24 "2009-02-13T04:19:41Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > What, exactly, don’t they get? They didn’t think their sector had anything to do with the bad economy, at all. Now, even if one thinks the banks are the bogeymen of the recession, nearly every economist believes that overleveraging of banks was a major factor in the economic downturn. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/25 "2009-02-13T04:23:50Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Accounting and Accountability? Explain that to me. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/26 "2009-02-13T04:25:00Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > They didn’t think their sector had anything to do with the bad economy, at all. Oh. Right. Ken Lewis doesn’t think Countrywide mortgage doesn’t have anything to do with the bad economy. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/27 "2009-02-13T04:42:04Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Explain that to me. [http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2009/db20090211\_300739.htm?chan=rss\_topStories\_ssi\_5](http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2009/db20090211_300739.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5) > [@](#): > > Citigroup (C) CEO Vikram Pandit apologized for the furor over its planned purchase of a new corporate jet even though it received $45 billion from the government. At first, the bank insisted it would go ahead with the purchase, but it then backed down amid a barrage of bad publicity. > > “We did not adjust quickly enough to the new world,” Pandit said. “I get the new reality, and I will make sure that Citi gets it as well.” > > Several bankers told the committee they were reducing their compensation. Morgan Stanley (MS) CEO John Mack said most senior members of the firm didn’t receive bonuses in 2008. “We’re tying future compensation more closely to multiyear performance,” Mack said. > > Frank criticized the bonus culture of banks, however, hitting at the banks’ contention that compensation was important to keep talented people. “If I told you you wouldn’t get a bonus, what part of your job wouldn’t you do?” he asked. > > Representative Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) attacked the bankers for raising credit-card rates despite receiving TARP funds. I am not sure, hence the question, but it seems to me that while the Bankers claim to get it, they seem to be doing their damnedest to still do business as usual at the executive level, crisis be dammed ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/28 "2009-02-13T04:57:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Rumor has it it’s the end of paradise. Snerk. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/29 "2009-02-13T05:11:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Neither of your examples fits the category that I stated. And I thought that unemployment measured people who don’t have jobs, period. (Obviously not including retirees or children) In either case, you certainly shouldn’t be counting them as _employed_. From [here](http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/02/06/the-other-unemployment-rate-139/): > [@](#): > > The Labor Department’s official unemployment rate hit 7.6% in January, and its jump from 4.9% a year earlier marks the largest annual increase in the unemployment rate since 1975. > > But the government’s broader measure of unemployment hit a more stunning level: 13.9%, up from 13.5% in December. > > The figure, which largely accounts for people who have stopped looking for work or can’t find full-time jobs, is the highest since the Labor Department started the data series in 1994. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/30 "2009-02-13T05:21:52Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Life has never been easier or better. More than 93% of us have jobs. Gas is under two bucks. They are practically giving away new cars with 0% financing. House prices are half of what they were a few years ago and a mortgage can be had around five percent. That’s a relief to the people who are living pay check to pay check and are worrying about the ever increasing job loss. > [@Scylla](#): > > It’s easy to get seats at fine restaurants. Which means a lot to the people mentioned above. > [@Scylla](#): > > Everything is great on TV You left out Jerry Springer and Judge Judy. > [@Scylla](#): > > Everybody is very aware of and addressing the problems that we face economically and abroad and working hard towards resolving them. They’re working hard on spending money that our children will have to repay (while taking care of their parents). > [@Scylla](#): > > Burger King just came out with the “Angry Whopper” . Great news for those who can’t afford the empty seats at the fine restaurants. > [@Scylla](#): > > People at work seemed to have lost their feeling of selfish entitlement and are glad to have their jobs and committed to doing them well. People at work are numb at the fear of joining the entitlement crowd. > [@Scylla](#): > > In general, people are a lot nicer and more concerned about each other than they have been recently. The ones on crack are. > [@Scylla](#): > > 3 Cabinet nominees have withdrawn the bailout is a porky mess It’s so reassuring knowing that it’s tough to find a tax dodger capable of writing legislation that will cost us more in taxes. > [@Scylla](#): > > We are fortunate enough to live in one of those very rare times when stock valuations are so cheap that you can make a true fortune if you are prudent and brave. Opportunity is everywhere. GE is 1/4 what it was a year ago and is paying a 10% dividend. You don’t need to be a genius to take advantage of that. If the remaining 96% weren’t already in debt and worrying about getting laid off that piece of cake would taste great. Thanks Maria, for those words to live by. To summarize, it’s a great time to be rich. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/31 "2009-02-13T07:26:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Life has never been easier or better. I think you are in a different reality. My brother has been unemployed for nearly a year. Neither of us have health insurance (nor is it available to purchase at any price). There are more vacant storefronts that I have ever seen. Lots of people are living in tents downtown. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/32 "2009-02-13T11:10:49Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I think you are in a different reality. Yep, he is. He has a job, and is alive. Gas is cheap, as are houses. Good job figuring that one out. The good 'ole “life can’t be good, because it’s not for me/and or people I know” argument, gotta love it. If anyone did any kind of reading into the OP, you would see that for people that are employed, things really are not too bad. Is it wrong to say this? The same meme can be said for those not employed; life is not good, no jobs, no credit, etc… and a poster would reply that it’s not true; I have a job, my friends have jobs, etc… Who’s right? If you guessed that it’s circumstantial, you win. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/33 "2009-02-13T11:37:15Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I think you are in a different reality. Well, things were better a few years ago. But that was funded by unsustainable debt, so I’m not sure it counts. > [@](#): > > My brother has been unemployed for nearly a year. Even if he’s unemployed for the rest of his life, he’s better off than half the world. > [@](#): > > Neither of us have health insurance (nor is it available to purchase at any price). Health insurance isn’t available at any price? Not sure when I last heard something so stupid. > [@](#): > > There are more vacant storefronts that I have ever seen. There was an unsustainable level of demand. Don’t get so deeply in debt next time! > [@](#): > > Lots of people are living in tents downtown. Sounds like most of the world. People need to get some perspective. Especially Americans. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/34 "2009-02-13T11:48:01Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Sure. But if they were smart and a reasonable asset allocation they can now rebalance and buy stocks and generational lows. You didn’t pay enough tuition after the .com implosion to be aware of buying too early on a relative valuation basis? ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/35 "2009-02-13T12:32:52Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Even if he’s unemployed for the rest of his life, he’s better off than half the world. Yes, this is true. I have lived in the Third World and he is better off than most people in the world. > [@Discordia](#): > > Health insurance isn’t available at any price? Not sure when I last heard something so stupid. Not where I live it isn’t. I have a pre-existing condition and am not eligible to purchase insurance. (So say all the rejection letters I have). I pay out of pocket for everything. I am thankful I can afford to buy flights at short notice to receive medical care in countries where it is affordable. > [@Discordia](#): > > People need to get some perspective. Especially Americans. Agreed. I lived in Tbilisi where we only had 4 hours of electricity per day in winter. When I saw the news of the 12 hour blackout in New York it didn’t seem so bad.. they actually got power 12 hours a day! ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/36 "2009-02-13T12:38:52Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > Not where I live it isn’t. I have a pre-existing condition and am not eligible to purchase insurance. I pay out of pocket for everything. Doesn’t make sense. Insurance companies should have no qualms giving insurance to people with pre-existing conditions, they’ll just charge you more to make up for it. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/37 "2009-02-13T12:44:10Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Doesn’t make sense. Insurance companies should have no qualms giving insurance to people with pre-existing conditions, they’ll just charge you more to make up for it. I wish that were the case and I completely agree… to a point obviously. $50,000/mo would not be an option of course. 😉 I write to my representatives, but nothing changes. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/38 "2009-02-13T13:01:06Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Oh. Right. Ken Lewis doesn’t think Countrywide mortgage doesn’t have anything to do with the bad economy. My bad. Technically, Countrywide is a bank as well (as I learned when my mortgage was sold to them). ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/39 "2009-02-13T13:19:17Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Doesn’t make sense. Insurance companies should have no qualms giving insurance to people with pre-existing conditions, they’ll just charge you more to make up for it. Depends on the pre-existing condition. If you have advanced leukemia, as an example, there’s just no viable business model for that. To charge you an amount that would cover their predicted expenses, and include a profit, would end up in a scenario where you would rather just pay for the treatments yourself. It would cost less. Insurance provides coverage for circumstances that _might_ occur at a given point in time. Once you have a a known, pre-existing condition, your care now falls outside the boundaries of what insurance is intended to cover. Typically coverage for pre-existing conditions is excluded, or no coverage is available at all if a condition is severe enough. You probably already know this, but it’s astounding how often people are pissed at denied coverage. Insurance is to cover the possibility that you _might_ be sick, or that you _might_ die in a given time frame. If that’s already a certainty, you don’t need insurance, you need a generous benefactor. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/40 "2009-02-13T13:52:46Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Insurance provides coverage for circumstances that _might_ occur at a given point in time. Once you have a a known, pre-existing condition, your care now falls outside the boundaries of what insurance is intended to cover. Typically coverage for pre-existing conditions is excluded, or no coverage is available at all if a condition is severe enough. You probably already know this, but it’s astounding how often people are pissed at denied coverage. Insurance is to cover the possibility that you _might_ be sick, or that you _might_ die in a given time frame. If that’s already a certainty, you don’t need insurance, you need a generous benefactor. The problem is (in my situation) that no insurance company will even issue insurance that covers everything except my pre-existing condition. So someone with leukemia can’t get coverage in the event they might get hit by a bus and break their leg. I would much rather my tax dollars go to help someone with advanced leukemia rather than to bombing other countries and killing people. To the original OP, these are good times if you still have income and/or good savings, but for the majority of people, these are scary and unpredictable times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623.md?page=3)