# These are the best of times **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623 "2009-02-13T01:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/61 "2009-02-13T17:01:14Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Well, you said it’s hard to make a case that times are great. I’d say times are roughly as good as they could be. Which I guess is another way of saying they’re great? And on the bright side, they’ll only improve! Are you sure about that? I am an optimist and believe they will, but there is no certainty that such is the case. Right now this on track for being a moderately severe and somewhat prolonged recession. Could it become a full-blown depression? I support the stimulus package but it is a significant bet on the future: if it works then the economy starts building back up, we gradually pay down the debt and have made some wise investments in the bargain - slowly selling off the portions of the companies bought for a profit, having built a new green industry, and having upgraded our infrastructure (transportation, electric, etc.). If it does not work then we are stuck with lots of debt and no foreseeable way of paying it off for generations, no arrows left in the quiver … ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/62 "2009-02-13T22:44:23Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Both me and Bill Gates are probably in the top 1% of the world’s population in terms of income and/or wealth. Bill Gates certainly is, but you may or may not be. Do you have a net wealth (i.e., value of all your physical and financial assets less the value of all your debts) of at least half a million dollars? [That’s what it takes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_inequality#Comparisons) to be in the top 1%, wealthwise. However, to be a member of the top global 10% requires only about $61K, and to be in the top 50% takes only about $2K. As for income, [apparently there’s about 13% of the global population that receives over $11,500 per year](http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/income.php). However, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the top 1% earns orders of magnitudes more than that, so ordinary wage earners like you and me might not qualify for the 99th percentile. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/63 "2009-02-14T20:10:42Z")
I think Scylla must be channeling Candide… living, as he apparently does, in the best of all possible worlds. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/64 "2009-02-14T22:57:58Z")
> [@rivulus](#): > > I think Scylla must be channeling Candide… living, as he apparently does, in the best of all possible worlds. By definition any world I inhabit is the the best possible. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/65 "2009-02-14T23:16:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > By definition any world I inhabit is the the best possible. Lol. Now _that’s_ optimism. Some of you could learn something from **Scylla**. More often than not the people with confidence & optimism are the the ones who thrive best. Ever hear of the power of positive thinking? I’m a firm believer in self-fulfilling prophecy. Try googling “Pygmalion in the classroom” or “Rosenthal effect”. Eta: Often people behave in ways which make what they believe will happen more likely to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/66 "2009-02-14T23:29:48Z")
Scylla, perhaps you are aware of Gregg Easterbrook’s [The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse](http://www.amazon.com/Progress-Paradox-Better-While-People/dp/0812973038/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234654102&sr=8-1). It has a similar vein as your OP. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/67 "2009-02-14T23:46:11Z")
[http://www.nsf.gov/news/newsmedia/pr111725/pr111725.pdf](http://www.nsf.gov/news/newsmedia/pr111725/pr111725.pdf) We are no. 16 ,just ahead of Mexico. But for a country with our attitude toward our fellow citizens, this is as good as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/68 "2009-02-14T23:50:21Z")
This thread reminds me of Jack Nicholson walking out into the psychiatrist’s waiting room and asking “What if this is as good as it gets?” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/69 "2009-02-15T14:35:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.nsf.gov/news/newsmedia/pr111725/pr111725.pdf](http://www.nsf.gov/news/newsmedia/pr111725/pr111725.pdf) We are no. 16 ,just ahead of Mexico. But for a country with our attitude toward our fellow citizens, this is as good as it gets. That page won’t load for me. No. 16 in what, please? Eta: Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/70 "2009-02-15T16:08:01Z")
Any planet that \*\*Scylla \*\*inhabits is the best possible world. Mars is a pretty crappy planet. OK, here’s my plan… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/71 "2009-02-15T16:15:38Z")
So are you suggesting we could Scyllaform Mars? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/72 "2009-02-15T22:39:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Any planet that \*\*Scylla \*\*inhabits is the best possible world. > > Mars is a pretty crappy planet. > > OK, here’s my plan… Count me in. Of course, in order to populate the planet I’ll need help. I’m thinking Giselle Bundchen, The SI swimsuit models, The Swedish Bikini Team, Anne Hathaway, Megan Fox and any other woman who has had a pictorial in Maxim in the last 5 years. Of course, the trip will take about a year, so I’ll need a lot of beer. For genetic diversity, I probably should bring another guy or two. They should need to pick about 100 18-24 year old girls to impregnate when we arrive. Best of all possible worlds. See what I mean? Who wants to come with me? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/73 "2009-02-15T23:05:16Z")
Populate? But that would dilute the purity! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/74 "2009-02-16T01:45:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Populate? But that would dilute the purity! I’m best in small doses. Surprised you forgot ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/75 "2009-02-16T02:44:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > To summarize, it’s a great time to be rich. Yep. It’s always a great time to be rich. That’s why I’m working my ass off to get there. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/76 "2009-02-16T02:46:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yep. It’s always a great time to be rich. That’s why I’m working my ass off to get there. At your firm’s billable rate of $500/hour? How long will that take? Define _rich_ please. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/77 "2009-02-16T02:57:27Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > At your firm’s billable rate of $500/hour? How long will that take? Define _rich_ please. 1. My “firm” doesn’t have a billable rate; each individual lawyer does. Mine is over $500 an hour (actually may be over $600 now, I haven’t seen the 2009 standard billing rates). 2. A law firm is a business. Customers pay the firm, and then the lawyers divide the spoils in the manner they have worked out among themselves. So, I don’t make anything like $500 per hour. I do, however, make enough to be in Obama’s cross-hairs. 3. Personally I define “rich” as “has enough money to live on without working.” One of the bitches of life is that the type of person most likely to get rich is the type of person that likes working for the non-monetary benefits. If I won the lottery tomorrow I would still go to work, I’d just be driven by my personal driver in a Corniche that was parked in the garage adjoining my ungodly mansion. 4. What I really meant by that post is something like (but nicer than) “Instead of complaining about it, go to work and become rich yourself.” But thanks for the opportunity to talk about myself some more. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623/78 "2009-02-16T03:28:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. My “firm” doesn’t have a billable rate; each individual lawyer does. Mine is over $500 an hour (actually may be over $600 now, I haven’t seen the 2009 standard billing rates). > > 2. A law firm is a business. Customers pay the firm, and then the lawyers divide the spoils in the manner they have worked out among themselves. So, I don’t make anything like $500 per hour. I do, however, make enough to be in Obama’s cross-hairs. > > 3. Personally I define “rich” as “has enough money to live on without working.” One of the bitches of life is that the type of person most likely to get rich is the type of person that likes working for the non-monetary benefits. If I won the lottery tomorrow I would still go to work, I’d just be driven by my personal driver in a Corniche that was parked in the garage adjoining my ungodly mansion. > > 4. What I really meant by that post is something like (but nicer than) “Instead of complaining about it, go to work and become rich yourself.” But thanks for the opportunity to talk about myself some more. No problem, this is Great Debates and not the Pit; but, by your definition, I’m: happy, rich and retired at 45 and I don’t need a Corniche, or any other foolishness. I’m loved and happy, as I am. You can stop pushing your world view at any time. It’s thinking like yours that has driven men to construct 50 billion dollar PONSI schemes. Why is your mansion _ungodly_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-are-the-best-of-times/485623.md?page=3)