# These people think they are ugly. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 12, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169 "2002-12-12T02:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/21 "2002-12-12T19:30:23Z")
Certainly! I’m an actress. It would definitely help in that arena. And if I were a happier person I would accomplish a lot more stuff. I spend a good…five hours of my waking life every day worrying about fat, exercise, what I’m eating, wearing, how I’m looking, what other people are seeing when they see me. Think of what else I could do if I didn’t have to worry about that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/22 "2002-12-12T19:32:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Listen. I’m confident that if I was skinnier, with a better butt, and a better face I’d be a MUCH happier person. I don’t care if everyone else thinks I’m attractive enough…I Want to feel attractive to me… > > What’s the big deal. It IS possible that people’s live can be improved through looking better. I know for a FACT mine would be. A good 75% of my depression is due to body issues. Remove body issues, remove depression. > > What’s the prob? \*\* Well, this is exactly the prob. Being perfectly normal isn’t good enough. There are people who believe that their destinies will improve if only their teeth were a little straighter or if that little bit of flab is removed. Let’s repeat this part: > [@](#): > > It IS possible that people’s live can be improved through looking better. I know for a FACT mine would be. A good 75% of my depression is due to body issues. Remove body issues, remove depression. I think we should remove body issues too. Having cosmetic surgery does not remove body issues. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/23 "2002-12-12T19:33:31Z")
The prob is that you may well still have body issues after your current ones are removed or changed. Many people (I’m not saying you’re one of them) are never going to be happy with themselves, so starting down the cosmetic surgery road just gives them very expensive false hope. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/24 "2002-12-12T19:34:01Z")
Sure it does. If I have a perfectly flat stomach, I don’t sit around hating my stomach and think I’m hideous. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/25 "2002-12-12T19:40:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Sure it does. If I have a perfectly flat stomach, I don’t sit around hating my stomach and think I’m hideous. Get it? \*\* I think we should have another discussion of **jar’s** painful self-image problems. This is the perfect thread to do it in. Yea, **jar** , we get it. That’s what’s so sad. That’s why this TV show made me lose a little more hope for humanity. You keep talking **jar**. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/26 "2002-12-12T20:54:39Z")
Biggirl, you start the most intereting threads, and I end up unsubscribing because beating my head against the wall _hurts_ so much. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/27 "2002-12-12T21:03:40Z")
I wouldn’t mind a hair transplant, though. Give me thick, long hair with body. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/28 "2002-12-12T21:03:50Z")
I’m willing to grant that **jarbaby** has extenuating circumstances, as she is an aspiring actress and the entertainment industry is truly alot easier to break into if your body closely resembles everyone elses body in the industry. This isn’t a pleasant reality, but it’s the only one we’ve got right now. So jar, if it’s important to you to be an actress, then you have my full support in eating sprouts and drinking only water and excersizing like a mad woman. I don’t see this as being any different than someone who works the alternative music industry piercing their face or dying their hair or a hand model taking extraordinary precautions against cuticle damage and broken nails. It’s part of the job description for what **jarby** has chosen to do with her life. It’s lovely but entirely idealistic and a bit naive to assume that jarbaby can change the unrealistic standards of the entertainment industry, especially if she spends 5 hours a day WANTING to conform to their standards. I do not, however, understand why an insurance broker or medication aide would risk their health to go under the knife because their nose was a bit unusual or their hips not QUITE 36" around. I mean, come ON. I’m glad it turned out okay for them and that they’re happy with their new looks… but honestly, if the operations had gone terribly awry and they lost their nose or ruptured an organ, they’d get _no_ sympathy from me. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/29 "2002-12-12T21:12:29Z")
The three people are certainly unattractive, but you would think that they’d be embarassed to go on television practically begging for plastic surgery. Yes, it’s sad that we live in a society that values appearance over anything. But it’s a fact. Unattractive people are often miserable due to their looks. If they can take steps to improve their faces/bodies, then I see nothing wrong with it. Sadly, they will probably still be miserable because they likely feel that no amount of improvement will be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/30 "2002-12-12T21:40:27Z")
At first I thought the show was just a makeover. Those three people are perfectly ordinary looking to me, definitely makeover candidates, but not necessarily requiring surgery. But hey, whatever. I hope to never have any cosmetic surgery of any kind, because I feel it would make me look like I was “trying” too hard. I plan to go gray with what dignity I can muster, too. Radical body-alteration is surely not for me. But apparently it IS for those three. So what? Maybe it will make them happier. Maybe it won’t. They’re entitled to pursue happiness, anyway. I fail to see the terrible big deal. Where I DO agree with biggirl (if I read her right) is the ideal itself. Hollywood and the fashion designers present a very unusual, even “abnormal” body style as the natural ideal, using tricks of light and clothespins to make the models look far better onscreen than in real life. Then the average ugly schmuck thinks he/she doesn’t measure up, and it’s true, he doesn’t. But the fault is the “ideal” - a false, trick image - being presented by the makers of our culture as natural, easily attainable\*, and the desired standard for everybody. This is the problem - not the desire of individuals to look better. \*Witness all the H’wood stars who have obviously had thousands of dollars’ worth of plastic surgery themselves, and then claim their looks come solely from eating right, exercise, and a positive attitude. Liars! ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/31 "2002-12-12T22:13:16Z")
If these people think they’re ugly, does that mean everyone who appears on _Jeopardy_ or _Who Wants to Be a Millionaire_ thinks they’re poor? ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/32 "2002-12-12T22:28:15Z")
I know people in the entertainment industry, and you are judged more on your looks than any other industry. The first thing they see is your head shot. But I have also come to realize that even people we think have perfect bodies have their own issues. I can audition for a part and have a perfect body, but get rejected because I am too old, too young, too tall, too blonde, have the wrong color eyes, etc. I see another woman and think, I would love to have her stomach. She is looking at another woman and thinking, I would love to have her legs, or hair, or whatever. It never ends, until you learn to accept what is and is not in your realm of possibility. I want to lose 10 pounds, and am working toward that goal, but I will never weigh 125, and would be wasting my time and energy to wish I could. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/33 "2002-12-12T23:01:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\* > Think of what else I could do if I didn’t have to worry about that stuff. \*\* You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/34 "2002-12-12T23:08:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Listen. I’m confident that if I was skinnier, with a better butt, and a better face I’d be a MUCH happier person. I don’t care if everyone else thinks I’m attractive enough…I Want to feel attractive to me… > > What’s the big deal. It IS possible that people’s live can be improved through looking better. I know for a FACT mine would be. A good 75% of my depression is due to body issues. Remove body issues, remove depression. > > What’s the prob? \*\* I don’t know you but I’ve known many women who I suspect have similar issues to you in that respect. I think that if you were skinnier, with a better butt and a better face you would still not feel attractive or maybe they’d be so much better than your stomach that you would find issue with it or whatever. I don’t doubt that 75% of your depression is due to body issues but it’s not your body that’s the problem. Remove the mentality (about a million times easier said than done, I know), remove the depression. I have never seen you but I have known women who were gorgeous by any standard and still had body issues and spent hour after hour obsessing about them. It’s a shame that the media in general and this POS show in particular reinforce those feelings. Haj ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/35 "2002-12-12T23:32:51Z")
I watched it, and by the time it was over, I was thinking maybe some unhappy people might learn something from it. None of them were head-turning knockouts when it was over, just average (but nice) looking folks with good haircuts. If nothing else, that might show people that plastic surgery doesn’t work miracles. Anyone remember Life and Loves of a She Devil (the book)? The diabolical heroine has herself totally remade into the woman her husband dumped her for, down to shortening leg bones to make herself more petite. I wonder if they’ll be content now, or if they’ll want to do more. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/36 "2002-12-12T23:37:19Z")
A friend of mine is an “exotic dancer”. Any club she goes to, she is always one of the top 5 girls there. She was solicited by Playboy to pose for them (didn’t get it, but hey, she was asked!). Every day, even when she is in sweats, no makeup, glasses, hair pulled back, and fighting acne, guys \* literally \* fall over themselves staring at her, offering to help her out, and of course, pestering her to death for dates. And she can’t stop obsessing about how one breast is a centimeter lower than the other, her chin is too pointy, her ears are too big, if she JUST had Jennifer Lopez’ skin, life would be alright again…frankly, it’s depressing, sad, and irritating. On the other hand, she has also said many times that she would be thrilled to be a 3 instead of a 9 if she could raise her IQ 50 points, get rid of her dyslexia, and begin to have an idea what she wants to be in this life. So her values aren’t completely screwed. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/37 "2002-12-13T00:54:39Z")
weren’t they supposed to get some style help? ---
**Author:** ![slackergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@slackergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slackergirl)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/38 "2002-12-13T01:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AuntiePam \* > \*\*I watched it, and by the time it was over, I was thinking maybe some unhappy people might learn something from it. > > None of them were head-turning knockouts when it was over, just average (but nice) looking folks with good haircuts. > \*\* Amen. I thought the guy looked better with the funky nose and teeth. His face had character, and it was more attractive before the big “fix”. I have mixed feelings on the topic in general. I just had bariatric surgery (weight loss surgery, but not the gastric bypass everybody is talking about lately) the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. Although the final push that sent me over the edge to doing it was general health issues, in the end I was certainly motivated as much by vanity. There is a good chance that I will end up in the same boat that the guy was in and need a tummy tuck when all is said and done. I can see what **jarbaby** was saying about how life will be easier when I am thinner. The sad fact is that I will be able to earn more money, date more, get more respect at work and in social situations, and enjoy a better quality of life in general. But I’m always going to have to live with what’s in my head, and that means there will always be something else to fix. From what I saw on the show, the people seemed to be fairly sane about it. My problem was with the voiceovers talking about how they have a “new life” and that their “personal issues” had disappeared. That’s a big load of crap. FWIW I think all three were reasonably attractive going in. Not stunners, but I wouldn’t have thought any of them ugly. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/39 "2002-12-13T22:25:07Z")
This is supposedly re-airing next Wednesday night at 10 PM, if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169/40 "2002-12-14T01:53:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > **[http://abc.abcnews.go.com/specials/extreme\_makeover.html](http://abc.abcnews.go.com/specials/extreme_makeover.html)** Hmmm … I think the guy in the middle and the gal on the right look better in their **before** picture. (Although the “after” picture does have the distinct advantage of letting you see more of her boobies.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-people-think-they-are-ugly/142169.md?page=3)