# These Presidential Libraries Are OUT OF HAND! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446 "2004-11-18T13:05:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yellowval](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/919ad9/32.png) [@yellowval](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowval)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/21 "2004-11-18T17:37:55Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Will he name it the GWB / Cheney library? The Bush & Dick Center? I’m sorry, I just can’t stay out of here. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/22 "2004-11-18T18:12:07Z")
The Carter Library is a part of the Carter Center, which is the home base for a lot of important humanitarian work. I met Rosalyn there once. I do have something of a problem with the proliferation of Presidential libraries, in that it scatters these records across the country in various institutions and configurations. I think all the papers should be at the National Archives with the rest of our, you know, national archives. Fragmentation of information is usually a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/23 "2004-11-18T18:34:03Z")
The libraries are part of the National Archives system, **Zsofia**. And parcelling these documents out to different sites, and duplicating them, is a good practice in general. It avoids problems like those associated with the [St. Louis military record fire of 1973.](http://www.archives.gov/facilities/mo/st_louis/military_personnel_records/fire_1973.html) In that fire, 80% of all personnel records for the Army from 1912-1960 (that’s WWI, WWII, Korea, and a small number of Vietnam veterans) were totally lost. Also, 75% of the records for Air Force personnel from the Air Force’s creation to 1964 were destroyed. This has created nightmares for veterans trying to get government benefits, as well as historians. If there were a similar fire at a single government repository for all records, the consequences would be dire. Under this system, though, at least the loss can be compartmentalized. ---
**Author:** ![thursday\_next](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@thursday\_next](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thursday_next)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/24 "2004-11-18T20:11:10Z")
Actually, according to [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4021201.stm) bbc article, the library has a link to the University of Arkansas via a school of public service. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/25 "2004-11-18T20:22:16Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I mean, a $163 million trbute to Bill Clinton? Surely this is over the top-the guy was , face it, a pretty insignificant president. Yeah, who needs eight years of peace, prosperity, well-paying jobs, international goodwill, and the return of government fiscal responsibility anyway? Good thing George W. Bush put a stop to all that! ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/26 "2004-11-18T21:08:31Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > > > No doubt history will remember it as a disingenuous, lowball, purely partisan coup attempt which was largely stifled by huge (and unanticipated) public support for BC and a backlash against the Republicans, but it was still significant because it happens so rarely. > > My bolding. > > The previous presidential impeachment could aptly be described identically. Andrew Johnson? (Richard Nixon resigned before being actually impeached.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/27 "2004-11-18T21:15:06Z")
> [@MisterThyristor](#): > > Andrew Johnson? (Richard Nixon resigned before being actually impeached.) That’s who **TYM** was referencing. And it really was massively partisan…both times it was radical Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/28 "2004-11-18T21:18:48Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > The libraries are part of the National Archives system, **Zsofia**. > > And parcelling these documents out to different sites, and duplicating them, is a good practice in general. It avoids problems like those associated with the [St. Louis military record fire of 1973.](http://www.archives.gov/facilities/mo/st_louis/military_personnel_records/fire_1973.html) > > In that fire, 80% of all personnel records for the Army from 1912-1960 (that’s WWI, WWII, Korea, and a small number of Vietnam veterans) were totally lost. Also, 75% of the records for Air Force personnel from the Air Force’s creation to 1964 were destroyed. This has created nightmares for veterans trying to get government benefits, as well as historians. > > If there were a similar fire at a single government repository for all records, the consequences would be dire. Under this system, though, at least the loss can be compartmentalized. I know they are, and the catalogues can be accessed online through NARA (well, sort of - it’s a real pain in the ass) and I get the point of dividing some of your storage up, honest. But sending part of it to Arkansas, part to Georgia, part to Texas… It seems to be hard on researchers, who would be doing the rest of their work at the Archives, but too specialized and wierd a collection to make scattering things so widely of benefit to local researchers or really _anybody_ but biographers. I think improved cataloging and electronic access would ameliorate that, but don’t wait up for _that_ to happen - maybe digitization projects just because they’re fashionable, but otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/29 "2004-11-18T21:23:39Z")
No blue dress, too bad **ralph124c**. This thread has to have one of the stupidest titles ever. Presidential libraries running amok! Who will save the children? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/30 "2004-11-18T21:54:47Z")
Third me on the whole looks like a high priced trailer thing. Otherwise. Meh. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/31 "2004-11-18T22:48:23Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > No blue dress, too bad **ralph124c**. > > This thread has to have one of the stupidest titles ever. Presidential libraries running amok! Who will save the children? 😛 Hey, how’d you like it if a Presidential Library moved into _your_ neighborhood?! ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/32 "2004-11-18T23:00:01Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Hey, how’d you like it if a Presidential Library moved into _your_ neighborhood?! I don’t have a problem with … those people. But they drive down property values, what with Michael Beschloss blasting his radio late at night and Doris Kearns Goodwin sitting on porch drinking beer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/33 "2004-11-18T23:04:25Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I don’t have a problem with … those people. But they drive down property values, what with Michael Beschloss blasting his radio late at night and Doris Kearns Goodwin sitting on porch drinking beer. And what if they tried to catalog your daughter? ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/34 "2004-11-18T23:16:54Z")
[Clinton Presidential Center](http://www.clintonpresidentialcenter.org/index.htm) The Center will encompass, in addition to the library and exhibits, the Clinton School of Public Service which will offer a MPS (Master of Public Service) degree through the University of Arkansas and offices for the Clinton Foundation. > [@Clinton Center Website](#): > > The Presidential Center site includes the Presidential Library and Museum, the Rock Island Railroad Bridge which will be renovated to become a pedestrian bridge crossing the Arkansas River and the Choctaw Station, built in 1899, which will house the Clinton School of Public Service and Clinton Foundation offices. I look forward to touring as soon as the crowds die down. All the security and traffic made me wary of crossing the bridge into Little Rock today. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/35 "2004-11-19T00:03:06Z")
Coincidentally, the history department in which i am a graduate student today received an email informing us about the [Scripps Library and Multimedia Archive](http://www.millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/') at the University of Virginia. This site has a whole bunch of excellent material related to the Presidency, including audio and transcripts of Presidential speeches from the past 70 years, including a whole bunch of tapes from the White House. They have over 2 terabytes of digital information right now, and are adding material all the time. There’s some really interesting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/36 "2004-11-19T01:57:43Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Hey, how’d you like it if a Presidential Library moved into _your_ neighborhood?! So long as it ain’t The George Bush Memorial Library it would be okay with me. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/37 "2004-11-19T02:15:38Z")
I’ve actually been to the Gerald Ford Library. It’s pretty dull. As for the Clinton center, I think it looks more like an amtrak train that overturned on a bridge. Would it be irony for President Bush to have his own library even though he isn’t much of a reader? Thanks to Alanis I’m not sure. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/38 "2004-11-19T02:46:07Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Hey, how’d you like it if a Presidential Library moved into _your_ neighborhood?! Don’t laugh buddy. If Dubya decides to come [here](http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=2581112) , we’ll have TWO! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/39 "2004-11-19T02:48:47Z")
BTW, Bill himself commented on the “house trailer” thing during his speech at the ceremony (caught it on CSPAN this evening). Did his usual Master Politician thing, saying essentially yes, it’s like myself, there’s a lot of Red State in me, as well as of Blue State. W was effussive in singing Clinton’s praises, you’d think he was nominating him for something. Paid special attention to raising up Hillary, Chelsea and Clinton’s mother. Bubba got in some pointed policy pokes (deficit, specially) but skilfully woven into his usual charming delivery about how everyone loves America and all sides are useful. Hillary had the sense to forget about her prepared speech make it a brief intro to Bill, on account of not making the audience suffer through the rain longer than necessary. This because the ceremony involved 3 past and the current Presidents + 1st Ladies, plus what looked like half of Congress, standing in pouring rain (that came down quite hard during BC’s speech; at the end of it he looked thoroughly soaked. I dunno what his doctors may make of this, to me he was not looking like someone who should be attending a ceremony and making a speech in pouring-down rain. [Chelsea, OTOH, was looking like someone for whom you’d want to stand in pouring down rain. Who’d have thunk…]). The dance of the aides with the umbrellas was amusing though ineffective, I can just see half our government laid down with pneumonia next week. Musical guests Bono and The Edge (of U2) even took advantage of that by doing a bit of the Beatles’“Rain”, with a lyric change about getting four Presidents out in the rain. (They played _Sunday, Bloody Sunday_, to commemorate the Clinton Admin’s work on Irish peace, and _Hands That Built America_ as a tribute to the country. It was interesting to see the sitting President of the USA opening for U2) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446/40 "2004-11-19T02:52:54Z")
A friend of mine is of the opinion it’s very phallic in appearance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-presidential-libraries-are-out-of-hand/275446.md?page=3)