# These town hall meetings have been interesting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 23, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549 "2017-02-23T13:53:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/81 "2017-02-24T01:00:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Even in a place where most people voted republican, for isnstance, a lot of people didnt, and it doesn’t take a lot of people to fill a town hall. Yeah, liberals are loving these town hall revolts and they are fairly entertaining political theater, but compared to the actual elections they’re a drop in the bucket. It’s nice to dream, though. > [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > He’ll save them in much the same way Clark Kent saved his father in _Man of Steel._ I’m amused by the image of Trump throwing farmers into tornadoes. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/82 "2017-02-24T01:06:26Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Yeah, liberals are loving these town hall revolts and they are fairly entertaining political theater, but compared to the actual elections they’re a drop in the bucket. It’s nice to dream, though. Well, the same was said of those rowdy town hall tea partiers after the Obama victory. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/83 "2017-02-24T01:07:08Z")
> [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](#): > > Yeah, Tom Cotton is a real up and coming GOP slimeball, one of the worst in a real den of snakes. Indeed. At least I am able to vote against the bastard, for what little good it will do. Rabbi Maimonides told us that if we are approached by ten beggars, give them money, and nine of them were lying to us, we have still done a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/84 "2017-02-24T01:18:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > _None_ of us gets to choose where our tax dollars go. I’d rather have mine go toward subsidies to help the less fortunate have access to medical care than anything else I named above. Do we get to elect legislators to make laws that control where our tax dollars go? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/85 "2017-02-24T01:19:11Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I keep seeing reports where Republicans are saying that Democrats are showing up in \*their \*districts. Are they admitting that they are so gerrymandered that there shouldn’t _be_ Democrats in those districts? I don’t think it’s that. They’re trying to claim that the Democrats are shipping in outside protesters, with the implication that the honest, hardworking people in their district support ACA repeal, and the protesters are a bunch of outsiders stirring up trouble. It’s generally not true, but you can see the usefulness of the narrative. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Moving to single payer would put me out of business. Worth it. No offense, but isn’t that kind of foolish of you? I mean, we’re talking about your career here? Do you really mean that, or is it just some sort of pious platitude? Because I have no idea why you’d take that position. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/86 "2017-02-24T02:02:05Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No offense, but isn’t that kind of foolish of you? I mean, we’re talking about your career here? Do you really mean that, or is it just some sort of pious platitude? Because I have no idea why you’d take that position. IAN **Aspenglow** and cannot speak for him/her, but I do know that some people are afflicted with a condition called “principled integrity” that makes them willing to put long-term benefit for everybody from a superior system above short-term benefit for themselves from an inferior system. Sad! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/87 "2017-02-24T02:20:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > IAN **Aspenglow** and cannot speak for him/her, but I do know that some people are afflicted with a condition called “principled integrity” that makes them willing to put long-term benefit for everybody from a superior system above short-term benefit for themselves from an inferior system. Sad! Please. If **Aspenglow** had serious objections to working in insurance, s/he wouldn’t work in insurance. But your first responsibility is to yourself, your friends, and your family, not to some nebulous concept of the public good. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/88 "2017-02-24T02:20:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do we get to elect legislators to make laws that control where our tax dollars go? In a very, very broad sense, maybe. In the very specific sense of “I don’t want a single dime of my taxes going for something I don’t believe in,” no. As you are well aware. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/89 "2017-02-24T02:23:05Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But your first responsibility is to yourself, your friends, and your family, not to some nebulous concept of the public good. lol ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/90 "2017-02-24T02:31:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Ya know what? I am really sick of the assumption that I have no idea what it is like to be poor just because I am tired of paying almost 40% tax to support them. I was BORN poor (my parents were idiots) and I left home at 18 to get away from abuse and ended up living well under the poverty level for several years. With poor people. > > Now days, I am middle class tho the husband is close to retiring so we may end up losing that. I live across the street from a family in a $600,000 home whose kids got free lunches at school for awhile because their public situation was that they didn’t have enough money to pay their mortgage and car payments. Except there were five adults living in that three bedroom house, so they had plenty of money to feed their three kids lunch, they just didn’t tell the schools that they had income from three more people. I know many people who get around half their income under the table. I know a woman whose 14 year old had a baby and then moved in with the dad after about four months, yet all of the freebies for the baby kept coming to grandmas house. She used to joke about getting so much stuff they had to throw it out. Etc. People game the system. > > It has nothing to do with what I think of people in the US or anywhere. I am just wondering if the glowing reports on how well universal healthcare works elsewhere is happening in the same situation we have here. Are people in other countries paying ridiculously high taxes to support people who just blither thru life without a plan? You pay almost 40% tax rate?! According to [this](https://taxfoundation.org/2016-tax-brackets/), there’s a minimum of $415,050 coming into your household. I’m also assuming that your house is in the same approximate value as their $600,00 house. Based on [this](http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/), you aren’t middle class no matter how you may feel. Let’s play dueling anecdotes. Poor? One of the most memorable homes I lived in was a single-wide in a clearing in the woods in Arkansas. Mum and dad had a bedroom and my 3 sisters and I shared a room, using 2X4 and plywood bunk beds. My wife’s was an old Buick in California. She had the entire backseat while her dad took the front. We’re both only high school graduates and after a rough decade of getting our shit together, working our asses off, and excelling at our jobs, we are middle class. We make about $60,000 a year. We’ve never taken charity and used WIC for 2 years. If I can get a guarantee that everybody (including my kids) can get the education they want and the minimum level of healthcare that everybody (including me and mine) deserves, I’ll pay 40% If 10% of the people helped are lying scumbags, we still helped 90% of people who are worth it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/91 "2017-02-24T02:34:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do we get to elect legislators to make laws that control where our tax dollars go? > [@silenus](#): > > In a very, very broad sense, maybe. In the very specific sense of “I don’t want a single dime of my taxes going for something I don’t believe in,” no. As you are well aware. The formalities of law provide the objective structure of what is legal and what is not, hence, an agreed consensus among those so empowered. If you want to change that, then the burden is on you to prove the necessity of change. Besides, what specific thing do you object to? Please answer in precise and definitive terms, there wiil be a quiz. And if that doesn’t work, there will be another. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/92 "2017-02-24T02:45:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > **SteveG1** , your response is not well grounded. > > It’s true that insurance works by spreading risk amongst a large pool. > > But there are two aspects in play. If 10,000 people each pay an equal amount to be covered by car insurance and two of them have accidents, it’s true that those two are subsidized by the 9,998 other drivers. But each person in that example paid an equal amount to participate in the pool. That’s unremarkable. > > The aspect that was being highlighted by **WillFarnaby** is that presumably the aggrieved woman’s entry into the risk pool was subsidized. It’s not the subsidy that occurs when the insurance covers herm in other words, but rather that the taxpayers cover her premiums in the first place. > > Now, that’s still a point for debate: absent the ACA subsidies, how can this woman afford insurance? That’s a fair point for discussion – should the taxpayer subsidize premiums? If the tax payer does not, what avenue exists to cover her health care costs? > > But it’s not the same point as conflating subsidized premiums, the cost of entering into the risk pool, with the subsidy that occurs when the insurance pays out as a result of the shared subsidy provided by the other participants in the risk pool. Thanks for the reply. We don’t always agree on everything, but at least I can understand what you say, and it has some thought, some reasoning behind it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/93 "2017-02-24T02:47:35Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > So far, the best (by which I mean “most outrageous”) excuse for chickening out has been offered by [Louie Gohmert](http://gohmert.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398419), who cites the shooting of Gabby Giffords as a reason for not showing his face in public. This same Gomer had no problem catering to and pandering to angry armed groups of Tea Partiers just a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/94 "2017-02-24T02:49:19Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > True and many of us want this system. A single payer system where we all pay in and all are covered is something many Americans want. Yes we do, because we believe it is a worthwhile thing. Even though we (including myself) already have/had coverage before Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/95 "2017-02-24T02:52:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No offense, but isn’t that kind of foolish of you? I mean, we’re talking about your career here? Do you really mean that, or is it just some sort of pious platitude? Because I have no idea why you’d take that position. **Kimstu** , she. And thanks for the reply on my behalf. **Captain Amazing** , no, not foolish. Principled to the point of putting my money where my mouth is. I am passionate about this issue. I’m not in insurance, but my work as a third party administrator for Section 125 (Flex) tax savings plans would probably go away eventually if we ever adopted single payer. But even if we move to a single payer system tomorrow (LOL!!), it would take several years to bring the change about – and since my work is a vehicle to shift a portion of the burden for the cost of health care to consumers, it’s likely to be one of the last things to go. Neither Democrats or Republicans seem eager to eliminate it. One of the things many people who want to move immediately to single payer forget is that a very lot of people are employed by the present system. Any shift will have to be gradual in order to not throw a lot of people out of work all at once. It’s exactly _because_ my responsibilities are first to myself (I’ll be ok), my friends and family that I feel this way. I watched my mom struggle hard in the last few years getting/keeping insurance coverage as an older self-employed individual, before she was Medicare eligible. I remember she cried when she qualified – not because she was sick, but because she no longer had to worry in case she _did_ get sick. I can’t express how glad I am that her brain aneurysm waited until she was covered by Medicare to make its presence known. Before the ACA, I faced the same problems. If you have health insurance through your employer, you have _no idea_ how hard insurance companies worked to schmuck older people off their rolls for any possible reason, or how shockingly expensive it was once they’d determined their bullshit “pre-existing condition,” no matter how flimsy. I have several friends and family members who would be dead today without the ACA. Damn right I’m willing to give up my business and career for the greater good. Theirs. _And_ mine. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/96 "2017-02-24T02:56:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do we get to elect legislators to make laws that control where our tax dollars go? I sure hope we still do! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/97 "2017-02-24T03:01:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The aspect that was being highlighted by **WillFarnaby** is that presumably the aggrieved woman’s entry into the risk pool was subsidized. It’s not the subsidy that occurs when the insurance covers herm in other words, but rather that the taxpayers cover her premiums in the first place. It is possible she needs the guarantee of coverage even if you have a pre-existing condition but ok…for the sake of argument let’s assume she is as subsidized for insurance as it is possible to be. What **WillFarnaby** is neglecting is that he was paying for this before Obamacare too. In the US we do not turn people away at the emergency room. This woman’s husband would have a heart attack (or whatever), get rushed to the ER and treated. They would tell the hospital they could not pay and guess what…the hospital passes those costs along to those who can like (presumably) **WillFarnaby** through higher prices. The hospital sure didn’t suck it up out of the kindness of their hearts. The money is coming from somewhere and in the end it will be the consumer picking up the tab. Also consider that the hospital might well initiate collection proceedings against this woman and her husband so they lose their house and savings. Now they are on welfare and again, guess who pays for that? The only problem now is costs that were previously buried are out in the light. **WillFarnaby** can see the bill and now he cares. The only alternative **WillFarnaby** has to this is we check ability to pay at the hospital doors and if it cannot be determined if the patient can cover likely costs they are left on the curb to their own devices. If we aren’t prepared to do that then society will have to help pay for those who cannot. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/98 "2017-02-24T03:59:39Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > **@curlcoat** Yes, every country with universal healthcare has people that live on the government dime and game the system. I guess that just means other countries care more about their citizens than we do? Perhaps then you could explain why it is that I am being required to care about citizens who not only don’t give a rats ass about me, but also expect that I will support them? > [@](#): > > If you really want to know this, why don’t you look up statistics of countries with universal healthcare. Look up their tax rates, welfare rates etc. Partly to see if you all who think that universal healthcare is such a good idea really know what is going on in other countries. > [@](#): > > If you are so angry about it why don’t you already know this? I guess its easier to just be angry about your assumptions and lash out at poor people than it is to actually find out whether your theories are correct about how much more selfish and lazy Americans are than the citizens of other countries. The data is out there if you really want to know. Where did I say I was angry? If I am anything, I’m resigned. No matter what, the legacy of entitlement to the fruits of the labors of others will continue to grow. I am left wondering why I worked two and three jobs to get ahead, when the result is that I end up paying high taxes to support people who decided to have kids/do drugs/drop out instead of working. Also, I kind of doubt whether there actually is any real information on whether citizens of other countries are as entitled and irresponsible as too many of us are. But then, I wasn’t the one making sweeping statements about those other countries. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How much does it cost to pay for breakfast for a school kid? Dunno. That was what is called an example. One of billions. OTOH, since it is the government doing it, I imagine it costs far more than it should. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Just because **some** people game the system doesn’t mean the system isn’t serving a useful purpose overall. > > It is more efficient, and cheaper in the long run, to have a universal-coverage national health insurance system than to deny poor people healthcare and scold them for being too shiftless to afford it. Cheaper for who? And what will you all want to give them next? > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > If you really wanted to learn about those other countries, you could look it up. You’ve certainly got the time. I don’t, right now. > > But this is the pit, so I just want to ask if you’re still receiving Social Security Disability. > > And you really need to meet some better people. You’re certainly a great ally for that Farnaby guy… :rolleyes: Another person who thinks that a pension plan is the same thing as welfare. Yes I do need to meet some better, more intelligent people don’t I? Who is Farnaby? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/99 "2017-02-24T04:17:12Z")
Damn there was a whole other page - I gotta quit having a life. > [@RickJay](#): > > Tell me, how does a person freeload on _health insurance_ the way these people you (allegedly) know freeload on school lunches? Are they showing up at the hospital to get free chemotherapy just for kicks? Getting bones set that weren’t actually broken? Going to the doctor for checkups every week for kicks? Who is paying for the people on ACA who are paying far less for their insurance than the average group premium? > [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I find it interesting that the same people who think it’s smart for the wealthy to cheat and game the system (see Trump) would rather poor people die than let them get away with it. And by interesting, I mean disgusting. Who thinks that? I mean, anyone other than the Cheeto in Charge? > [@snfaulkner](#): > > Why can’t all those idiot poor people just marry into money like you? Those freeloading fuckers! HA! That actually made me LOL for real. What gives you the impression I married into money? > [@](#): > > Yeah, those dicks. How many people do you know that aren’t gaming the system? Hard to say since it is rare that someone admits to it. I doubt any of my close friends are tho. > [@](#): > > Have you talked to the ones who need the system? Define what you consider to be “need”. > [@](#): > > The ones who weren’t able to leave the abuse of idiot parents? Why can’t they leave? > [@](#): > > What are you going to do when you hubs retires? Game the social security system? We are going to do our best to live on a fixed income but it is scary to think how possible it is that we will have to sell our house because taxes have become too much. > [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > You pay almost 40% tax rate?! According to [this](https://taxfoundation.org/2016-tax-brackets/), there’s a minimum of $415,050 coming into your household. We also pay a state income tax. > [@](#): > > I’m also assuming that your house is in the same approximate value as their $600,00 house. You would be wrong. > [@](#): > > Based on [this](http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/), you aren’t middle class no matter how you may feel. Well, since you were wrong on both counts and have not factored in where we live, please pardon me if I don’t accept that assessment. By your own cite, we are solidly middle class. > [@](#): > > Let’s play dueling anecdotes. Poor? One of the most memorable homes I lived in was a single-wide in a clearing in the woods in Arkansas. Mum and dad had a bedroom and my 3 sisters and I shared a room, using 2X4 and plywood bunk beds. My wife’s was an old Buick in California. She had the entire backseat while her dad took the front. > We’re both only high school graduates and after a rough decade of getting our shit together, working our asses off, and excelling at our jobs, we are middle class. We make about $60,000 a year. We’ve never taken charity and used WIC for 2 years. > If I can get a guarantee that everybody (including my kids) can get the education they want and the minimum level of healthcare that everybody (including me and mine) deserves, I’ll pay 40% > If 10% of the people helped are lying scumbags, we still helped 90% of people who are worth it. What is your point here? That you are still a liberal and don’t notice the growth in numbers of people with their hands out? Or that there is something to be proud of for “only” taking welfare for two years because you couldn’t be arsed to wait to have kid(s) until you could afford them? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549/100 "2017-02-24T04:19:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The only alternative **WillFarnaby** has to this is we check ability to pay at the hospital doors and if it cannot be determined if the patient can cover likely costs they are left on the curb to their own devices. And Will _still_ ends up paying the extra costs caused by the increase in endemic and epidemic disease. Gee, it sure does suck for Will to be trapped in a universe that functions by cause and effect instead of reshaping reality in response to ideological incantations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-town-hall-meetings-have-been-interesting/780549.md?page=6)