# "These USDA employees face a stark choice: Move to Kansas City or be fired" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 3, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464 "2019-07-03T18:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/1 "2019-07-03T18:46:48Z")
I haven’t seen a thread on this, but it’s one more crazy-making thing. “These USDA employees face a stark choice: Move to Kansas City or be fired” > **[Perspective | These USDA employees face a stark choice: Move to Kansas City...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/01/these-usda-employees-face-stark-choice-move-kansas-city-or-be-fired/)** > > Agriculture Department officials have told workers at two agencies that they have two choices: relocate to the Kansas City area or face firing. With many declining relocation, the move will seriously disrupt the work of the department's Economic... > [@](#): > > The Agriculture Department is offering employees a rare choice: accept a forced transfer to a post 1,000 miles away or be fired. > > The Trump administration’s plan to move two agencies from Washington, D.C. to the Kansas City area includes a document with two blank boxes on it, sent to employees on June 13. Check one, it instructs: Accept the transfer by July 15 or “be separated by adverse action procedures.” > … > Union officials estimate a strong majority of employees will decline reassignment. If that happens, the work of the small but important agencies could be seriously upset. Even before Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue announced the Kansas City region as the new location, but after officials said the agencies would be moving out of the District, department employees quit in droves, my colleague Ben Guarino reported last month. > > “The current and projected attrition will curtail research data products that encompass commodity estimates, agricultural sector forecasts, food and farm economic and statistical indicators for U.S. agriculture, conservation, and food policy and markets,” said Kevin Hunt, a 10-year USDA employee, speaking as acting vice president of the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) Local 3403 representing research service staff. > … Don’t need no stinkin’, uppity scientists. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/2 "2019-07-03T18:56:11Z")
Fired? That is crazy. I was once given the option of moving to Rochester, NY, or losing my job. I did not move to Rochester, and I did collect unemployment. This is not an adverse-action situation, but maybe the government is different. I don’t know what these peoples’ employment contract says. I’m betting the move is there to reduce the work force in question by a large number, and I’m also betting it will work. While I feel for these people, I also have a gut feeling that any federal agency could be cut by some huge numbers without inflicting any significant harm to the general public. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/3 "2019-07-03T19:01:04Z")
The Trump administration _does love_ firing people and decreasing the size of government. They say it’s to save money, but then he goes on more than 160 golf trips, most to his own resorts, on the taxpayers’ dime, so. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/4 "2019-07-03T19:12:11Z")
This is part of the evil administration’s concerted effort to drive dedicated civil servants out of their jobs, either to reduce the work force and/or to make way for administration apologists to take over for them. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/5 "2019-07-03T19:19:43Z")
Not posted by ThelmaLou, but quoted by ThelmaLou: > [@](#): > > the work of the small but important agencies could be seriously upset. [/QUOTE] Some farmers suspect that that’s the whole idea. – bear in mind, a lot of those forecasts are talking about likely impacts of, and how to cope with, climate change. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/6 "2019-07-04T04:24:21Z")
\ Military spouse - mrAru was moved with pretty much no input in the matter 4 times while he was active duty, only twice did he not physically uproot the household and move, once for 18 months he lived in Portsmouth NH for a yard period, and a 14 month yard period on a different boat. Anything shorter like a 1 or 2 month school we pretty much ignored [it was like he was away on a deployment except we got to speak on the phone every day or so.] I suppose he could have tried refusing to move, but that would have ended up with a short move to Fort Leavenworth for some quality rock breaking time. Look, it is pretty plain to me, you want to work the job, they want you to move, you move and deal with it. People need to realize that everything isn’t a fantasy movie, real world shit happens and you deal with it. I personally would have preferred staying in Norfolk VA, I liked where we were living there and had a whole network of friends and businesses we liked to patronize, we liked the weather there, and the beaches were better than the craptastic Long Island Sound beaches. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/7 "2019-07-04T04:36:41Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Look, it is pretty plain to me, you want to work the job, they want you to move, you move and deal with it. Would you still feel that way if the _goal_ of the relocation is to interrupt your spouse’s work and to cull the workforce? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/8 "2019-07-04T04:49:09Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > \ Military spouse - mrAru was moved with pretty much no input in the matter 4 times while he was active duty, only twice did he not physically uproot the household and move, once for 18 months he lived in Portsmouth NH for a yard period, and a 14 month yard period on a different boat. Anything shorter like a 1 or 2 month school we pretty much ignored [it was like he was away on a deployment except we got to speak on the phone every day or so.] I suppose he could have tried refusing to move, but that would have ended up with a short move to Fort Leavenworth for some quality rock breaking time. > > Look, it is pretty plain to me, you want to work the job, they want you to move, you move and deal with it. People need to realize that everything isn’t a fantasy movie, real world shit happens and you deal with it. I personally would have preferred staying in Norfolk VA, I liked where we were living there and had a whole network of friends and businesses we liked to patronize, we liked the weather there, and the beaches were better than the craptastic Long Island Sound beaches. Remind me: how often is relocating a part of a job with the USDA? Is it so regular an occurrence as to be “part of the territory”? Look, it is pretty plain to me, this is an attempt to starve this agency before they drown it in a bathtub. Relocate to somewhere far away that no one wants to move to. Watch people quit or “be fired”. Reduced workforce can’t handle workload. GOP cites agency as ineffective waste of money and abolishes it. Choose next agency and repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/9 "2019-07-04T05:40:17Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > While I feel for these people, I also have a gut feeling that any federal agency could be cut by some huge numbers without inflicting any significant harm to the general public. Yeah, agriculture’s overrated. We should all go back to hunting and gathering. ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/10 "2019-07-04T07:59:41Z")
It seems the main purpose of this relocation is to rid the agency of one of Trump’s nemeses; scientists and their support staff investigating and reporting on the long term effects of climate change on agriculture. Nothing they report on is worthy of a shout out at a Trump rally. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/11 "2019-07-04T13:20:22Z")
This wasn’t a Trump plan. IMHO I get the impression this has been in the works for a long time. Notice that 135 bids were reviewed. The proposal came from two states willing to offer tax incentives. Nothing unusual. States routinely make offers to private companies to relocate operations. They offer tax incentives, infrastructure upgrades, even land at reduced prices. It’s a vital part of economic development. [https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article231442813.html](https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article231442813.html) > [@](#): > > A two-state proposal from Kansas and Missouri beat out 135 other bids to become new headquarters for the Economic Research Service (ERS) and National Institute of Food and Agriculture (NIFA), two of the USDA’s principal research agencies. > > It’s a major win for policymakers in both states, who worked closely on a collaborative bid, and a sign that the long-term border tensions on economic development may be easing > [@](#): > > Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue informed employees at the agencies of the move Thursday morning. He said the relocation will save the USDA $300 million over 15 years and that state and local governments had offered $26 million in incentives to move to the region. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/12 "2019-07-04T13:25:59Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > \ Military spouse - mrAru was moved with pretty much no input in the matter 4 times while he was active duty, only twice did he not physically uproot the household and move, once for 18 months he lived in Portsmouth NH for a yard period, and a 14 month yard period on a different boat. Anything shorter like a 1 or 2 month school we pretty much ignored [it was like he was away on a deployment except we got to speak on the phone every day or so.] I suppose he could have tried refusing to move, but that would have ended up with a short move to Fort Leavenworth for some quality rock breaking time. > > Look, it is pretty plain to me, you want to work the job, they want you to move, you move and deal with it. People need to realize that everything isn’t a fantasy movie, real world shit happens and you deal with it. I personally would have preferred staying in Norfolk VA, I liked where we were living there and had a whole network of friends and businesses we liked to patronize, we liked the weather there, and the beaches were better than the craptastic Long Island Sound beaches. You have TOTALLY missed the point with THIS particular move. (Air Force brat speaking here.) This is not normal job relocation. This is something entirely different. > [@Dereknocue67](#): > > It seems the main purpose of this relocation is to rid the agency of one of Trump’s nemeses; scientists and their support staff investigating and reporting on the long term effects of climate change on agriculture. Nothing they report on is worthy of a shout out at a Trump rally. THIS is what’s happening. It’s the continuing campaign to remove science and scientists from any place where they might be able to make or suggest policy. It’s this: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Remind me: how often is relocating a part of a job with the USDA? Is it so regular an occurrence as to be “part of the territory”? > > Look, it is pretty plain to me, this is an attempt to starve this agency before they drown it in a bathtub. Relocate to somewhere far away that no one wants to move to. Watch people quit or “be fired”. Reduced workforce can’t handle workload. GOP cites agency as ineffective waste of money and abolishes it. Choose next agency and repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/13 "2019-07-04T13:28:16Z")
How much will it cost to re-locate? How much will it cost to hire new people and train them? How long will it take until they can do the workload that needs to be done, and how much will that cost in lost productivity? Jay-Z & Beyonce could shit $300 million and still have more than a billion dollars so I’m not sure $300 million is worth what the cost will be. I’m just not willing to accept _anything_ this administration does or says without vetting it; they have proven themselves unreliable in too many regards. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/14 "2019-07-04T16:50:57Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > \ Military spouse [. . .] Look, it is pretty plain to me, you want to work the job, they want you to move, you move and deal with it. Every job has certain things that go along with it. You take that job, you take the things that go along with it. Being expected to move frequently is one of the things that goes along with being in the military; and this is to some extent inherent in the nature of the job. People who can’t stand to do it, or whose immediate families can’t deal with it, shouldn’t take military jobs. There are quite a lot of such people; while place is essentially interchangeable for many humans, it’s critically important to others. The people in question didn’t take military jobs. They took jobs that were expected to allow them, and their immediate families, to stay put. They’re now having an additional requirement of the job thrown at them not only after they signed up for the job, but in many cases after they’ve built careers of many years on that job; and they could not reasonably have expected that to happen. And their spouses didn’t sign up for this either, and may have non-moveable careers of their own. – all of that is aside from, or at any rate additional to, the issue of whether the change is likely to and/or intended to damage the agencies in question. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/15 "2019-07-04T18:46:33Z")
They don’t even have offices ready for the people who _do_ make the move. It’s completely political and stupid. I.e. par for the Trump course. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/16 "2019-07-04T20:31:35Z")
Overall a stupid decision from a stupid Administration. But at least it’s in the right direction. What if was the other way? Forced to move to D.C.? The horror! ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/17 "2019-07-04T20:43:52Z")
It is also par for the Federal Government for decades. Such moves, usually sold as distributing the federal workforce throughout the country, have been going on almost since there has been a Washington. Much as I distrust Trump, this move is in keeping with a long tradition of such things. For instance, back in the 70’s the Navy moved all their oceanographers from Washington DC to Mississippi. Only about 2/3s of the technical staff moved. The agency (the US Naval Oceanographic Office) is still there and still about ½ the DC size. But everyone who moved enjoyed nice new facilities and a far lower cost of living. I could go on. The Dept of Agriculture moved a large part of their finance department to N.O. etc. Trying to shut down the voice of the federal scientists doesn’t make any sense. It is a PR claim by the people who don’t want to move. Reality is more complex. Climate change is a fact. A few reports by some obscure federal agency isn’t going to change anyone’s mind on this issue. Nor do the deniers have to change anyone’s mind. None of the countries of the world are able to do anything to change the trajectory now. Back in the 90s they could have. Not any more. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/18 "2019-07-07T00:50:10Z")
> [@](#): > > The Agriculture Department is offering employees a rare choice: accept a forced transfer to a post 1,000 miles away or be fired. As opposed to the private sector, which offers that choice to someone virtually every day. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/19 "2019-07-07T01:42:42Z")
Such an attack of the vapors people… Let’s see, hmm… The USDA Dept. of Agriculture locating some staff to where, people actually GROW stuff? OH! The Humanity !!111!! What next? Defense Department moving staff to stuff that needs defending? OMG !!! If only Hillary had been elected we would all have Unicorns pooping Skittles… ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464/20 "2019-07-07T01:44:49Z")
Cost of living is lower however, there are fewer choice opportunities for self-promotion and lobbying work on the side. I call it a net win. Unless, you think the D.C. area is seriously under-populated… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-usda-employees-face-a-stark-choice-move-to-kansas-city-or-be-fired/836464.md?page=2)