# They are not Replacement Refs...They are SCABS! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798 "2012-09-25T17:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/21 "2012-09-25T21:10:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You’re hoping that the white collar guys that come down from the offices (and the scabs they hire) can build cars as well as the union guys picketing the plant. You simply get an inferior product with scabs. One would expect that people who actually want to work will do a better job than lazy, greedy cunts. Fuck anyone who strikes over pay. (If anyone cares, I’ve just voted against striking, and will leave the union if the vote is passed). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/22 "2012-09-25T21:11:53Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > The same argument can be made about atheletes. Which was precisely the owner’s viewpoint back in the day when athletes were paid well by most standards but not outrageous sums of money. Then the athletes organized and, well, they get paid better today. That’s fine and I am not saying they should be paid $20/hour. I realize they are critical to the proper operation of the game and as necessary as the players. I also realize it is a highly skilled position and a difficult job to do well. The fact remains they are exceedingly well compensated right now so I cannot get in a fuss that they are somehow being treated badly. Work 17 days a year for $150K (plus pension)? Sign me up! (yeah I know I cold not do the job…just saying) ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/23 "2012-09-25T21:17:18Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, fuck those scabs! What, they think they can just enter the marketplace and out-compete the incumbents, who were given their positions by divine providence? Next thing you know jobs will be lobbed out by moistened binks. Seriously, I’m not getting the extreme outrage and petty name calling. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/24 "2012-09-25T21:22:46Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, fuck those scabs! What, they think they can just enter the marketplace and out-compete the incumbents, who were given their positions by divine providence? Where do they think this is, _America_?! Where do they get the audacity to try to feed their families when they know someone else out there wants more money for the same job?! Those socialist bastards! The problem with this, in a broader sense, is companies can play this game endlessly and it becomes a race to the bottom. There will always be someone without a job willing to do your job for less than you are being paid so they can feed their family. It is a rare individual indeed who can claim they are uniquely qualified to do a given job and thus demand a high wage because almost no one else can do it. So, someone out-competes you for your job by being willing to do it for less. Now you cannot feed your family so you agree to do it for less than that guy. Round-and-round it goes till you are working for a pittance. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/25 "2012-09-25T21:25:42Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I see some folks feeling sorry for these guys, “They are trying their best, they are just in over their heads.” “Give them a break, they are being intimidated.” > > Fuck’em I say. They are scabs, plain and simple, they suck at refereeing and at life. No, they are guys who want to make an honest buck reffing a game. Sucks for the guys on strike, but personally I would prefer mrAru cross a picket line and make the money to pay the mortgage, buy food and pay bills. [for the record he isn’t a ref, but I am speaking metaphorically.] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/26 "2012-09-25T21:29:11Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, fuck those scabs! What, they think they can just enter the marketplace and out-compete the incumbents, who were given their positions by divine providence? Where do they think this is, _America_?! Where do they get the audacity to try to feed their families when they know someone else out there wants more money for the same job?! Those socialist bastards! It’s like those good-for-nothing corporate executives who collect their seven figure salaries. Anyone can wear a suit and sit in a chair. Just hire some guy to run the company for $25,000 a year - he’ll do as good a job as the so-called professional. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/27 "2012-09-25T21:39:13Z")
I am “pro-union” as well, and I find the “scab” hate ridiculous. Not all union demands are sacrosanct, and less-qualified replacements should do nothing but help the cause of strikers. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/28 "2012-09-25T22:15:51Z")
Recent events have proven that the refs are as important to the game\* as the players. If its necessary to compensate them as well as the lesser players are, so be it. If God appeared in the sky and said “I love football, but I insist that each team hire several more players than they do now”, would the cost of doing so destroy the NFL? I think not. - to the fans’ enjoyment, the players’ safety, as well as the principles of fairness and sportsmanship ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/29 "2012-09-25T22:49:18Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’m fine with any labor organization being able to shut down any business with a strike. While I do generally support a labor union’s ability to strike, I’m not keen on paying garbage men $250,000 a year because my neighborhood would be a rat infested shithole if nobody could remove garbage. Similarly, the NFL should not be required to kowtow to any and all demands by their referee union, because their multibillion dollar industry will shut down without replacements. I’ll say this, locking them out when they would have worked during the negotiations seems to have been a very bad choice. It’s highlighting the importance of their skill set, not what you want to do in a labor negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/30 "2012-09-25T22:51:24Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Sucks for the guys on strike … The refs aren’t on strike. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/31 "2012-09-25T23:34:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So, someone out-competes you for your job by being willing to do it for less. Now you cannot feed your family so you agree to do it for less than that guy. > > Round-and-round it goes till you are working for a pittance. Yeah, it’s called competition, and it’s good for the economy. It sucks when it happens to you, but it’s good for the business and good for their customers. The flipside, when businesses compete, is good too, as it’s one of the reasons why we all make \>$3/year and why cars aren’t all $50,000. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s like those good-for-nothing corporate executives who collect their seven figure salaries. Anyone can wear a suit and sit in a chair. Just hire some guy to run the company for $25,000 a year - he’ll do as good a job as the so-called professional. It’s not about who can do the best job. It’s about who can do a job worth their salary. Apparently, the NFL has decided that the replacements are worth their salary and the veterans are not. I have no dog in this fight. I’m not a team owner nor a referee. I think everyone should be free to strike, to lock out, and to negotiate to their heart’s content. What is inexcusable, though, is **Gangster Octopus’s** attitude that anyone who dares play for the other team is garbage. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: We’re not all in this together. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/32 "2012-09-25T23:47:29Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > You know what scabs are used for and why they are called scabs? Apparently you don’t, since the union is not on strike. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/33 "2012-09-26T00:11:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > One would expect that people who actually want to work will do a better job than lazy, greedy cunts. Fuck anyone who strikes over pay. > > (If anyone cares, I’ve just voted against striking, and will leave the union if the vote is passed). What the hell else would someone strike over? And if not by striking (or a credible threat to strike), how exactly would you expect the union to exert any leverage over management to get any kind of contract improvement? And the union people I work with (I’m management) are very hard working and do exemplary work. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/34 "2012-09-26T00:19:07Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I’m confused, will Iran nuke Israel if a bad call gets made? Will a million Chinese orphans die if the wrong team wins? We’re still talking about a game where people wear tight pants and throw and kick a ball around the field, right? It’s silly to care about something that you yourself aren’t even taking an active part in. I take it you’re not a sports fan. > [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > It’s not just the pay, though. As I understand it…On the face of it, I don’t see what the NFL wants being all that terrible. > > But on the other hand …it makes the owners look like greedy Uncle Moneybags with the monocle and the gold-plated bathroom fixtures and the bags with the $ on them. > > And remember, the officials would have kept working during negotiations. It’s the NFL that locked them out, thinking “finding replacement officials will be a breeze!” and they’d be able to put pressure on the regular officials, thinking their jobs might actually be in jeopardy. Now it’s the league’s image that’s in jeopardy. Methinks things have backfired a bit on Ol’ Uncle Moneybags. Yeah, I think a lot of people keep forgetting, this isn’t a strike, this is a lockout. The refs were willing to keep reffing while they negotiated but the owners wanted to show them how replaceable they were only to find out that they are not. I wonder if the referees demands have gone up, if it were me, I’d start asking for a LOT more. At this point the team owners can’t win. Even really good refs will draw ire for close calls or bad calls during a game. Now everyone will point to the scabs and blame what they see as poor reffing on the lockout. If I was the Ref union, I would get on sports center and remind everyone that the refs were willing to keep reffing but the owners locked them out. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, fuck those scabs! What, they think they can just enter the marketplace and out-compete the incumbents, who were given their positions by divine providence? Where do they think this is, _America_?! Where do they get the audacity to try to feed their families when they know someone else out there wants more money for the same job?! Those socialist bastards! But they’re not outcompeting the incumbents. > [@Steophan](#): > > One would expect that people who actually want to work will do a better job than lazy, greedy cunts. Fuck anyone who strikes over pay. > > (If anyone cares, I’ve just voted against striking, and will leave the union if the vote is passed). You realize that anyone that strikes over pay (and ONLY pay) is not guaranteed a job when a strike is over right? You are only protected if you strike over working conditions or union-busting activity. Oh yeah, and the referees aren’t striking, they got locked out. > [@Eonwe](#): > > I am “pro-union” as well, and I find the “scab” hate ridiculous. Not all union demands are sacrosanct, and less-qualified replacements should do nothing but help the cause of strikers. The refs aren’t striking here. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, it’s called competition, and it’s good for the economy. It sucks when it happens to you, but it’s good for the business and good for their customers. The flipside, when businesses compete, is good too, as it’s one of the reasons why we all make \>$3/year and why cars aren’t all $50,000. And we had unions during most of the runup to the current state of affairs. > [@](#): > > It’s not about who can do the best job. It’s about who can do a job worth their salary. Apparently, the NFL has decided that the replacements are worth their salary and the veterans are not. > > I have no dog in this fight. I’m not a team owner nor a referee. I think everyone should be free to strike, to lock out, and to negotiate to their heart’s content. What is inexcusable, though, is **Gangster Octopus’s** attitude that anyone who dares play for the other team is garbage. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: We’re not all in this together. My only dog in this fight is that I want a quality product but frankly I can’t afford to give up my season tickets no matter how pissed off I am about this penny pinching. I agree anyone can strike or lockout. The rules of the game are relatively fair but the product is suffering significantly and it seems to me that the fault lies almost entirely with the team owners. My only problem with the scabs is that they are not doing a good job and reinforcing my opinion of scabs generally. If they did a good job then maybe I would say different but right now they suck ass. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/35 "2012-09-26T00:26:25Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I see some folks feeling sorry for these guys, “They are trying their best, they are just in over their heads.” “Give them a break, they are being intimidated.” > > Fuck’em I say. They are scabs, plain and simple, they suck at refereeing and at life. Paul Ryan and Scott Walker agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/36 "2012-09-26T00:38:47Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > OK, now that you’ve posted this here, and in every other NFL thread I’ve come across this afternoon, do you feel better? Everyone now knows that you’d prefer to call them scabs. Noted. Granted. Understood. Can we move on to the grownup part of the conversation now? Are you suggesting that the way people frame an issue has no effect whatsoever on when and how it gets resolved? :dubious: If calling the current crop of zebra-striped buffoons “scabs”, pointing out the fact that [some of them were fired from the Lingerie Football League for incompetence](http://www.forbes.com/sites/lancemadden/2012/09/25/lingerie-football-league-we-fired-some-current-nfl-replacement-refs/), etc helps send the message to NFL management that they need to fix this mess PDQ, then have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/37 "2012-09-26T01:36:52Z")
I can’t tell if half of you are functionally retarded or just blindly pro-union. Let me break down in plain language. Any job that can be filled by someone with equal competence for less overall compensation should be. It is that simple and it the only fair way for it to be both for the owners and the people that are waiting and willing to do the job. There is nothing wrong with being a replacement work (aka ‘scab’) comrades. Either you can do the same job under the stipulated conditions at the same level of competence or you can’t. Capiche? This lockout is having the opposite effect. The replacement refs aren’t doing a good job and that gives the regular refs more leverage. Pro-union people should love that because it proves a valid point but no, you decide to call people names for taking a shot at something they thought they could do while providing a paycheck to their families. Some of them probably had real financial problems judging by the economic picture today. This was their dream shot and a chance to make great money for something they were marginally qualified to do. Should they just pass that up in the name of solidarity with people they never met and tell their kids they will have to defer college for a few years to stand tall for a nebulous cause that they will never benefit from. I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/38 "2012-09-26T01:40:35Z")
501©6 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/39 "2012-09-26T02:49:09Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > While I do generally support a labor union’s ability to strike, I’m not keen on paying garbage men $250,000 a year because my neighborhood would be a rat infested shithole if nobody could remove garbage. > > Similarly, the NFL should not be required to kowtow to any and all demands by their referee union, because their multibillion dollar industry will shut down without replacements. > > I’ll say this, locking them out when they would have worked during the negotiations seems to have been a very bad choice. It’s highlighting the importance of their skill set, not what you want to do in a labor negotiation. I don’t believe the garbage industry would be able to sustain that. I believe unions understand that excessive demand that cripples the company or industry goes against their own interests as well, and would not demand such exorbitant pay. For the NFL, comparable union workers in other sports who are less dominant and rich than the NFL make comparably more. The refs’ demands are not excessive. If anything, they are underpaid for their position. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798/40 "2012-09-26T03:06:34Z")
Can I be pro-union _and_ not give shit about what the people currently refereeing NFL games are called? 'Cause I want to do that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-not-replacement-refs-they-are-scabs/635798.md?page=3)