# THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665 "2009-08-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/221 "2009-08-10T05:39:08Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The difference is in the man. It is right to oppose a president who makes up things to tell us in order to get us to support the preemptive attack against innocent nations. But it is wrong to oppose a president who is working to restore our reputation abroad, to relieve the financial burdens of the middle class, to free us from energy independence by using his bully pulpit and his photo ops to push alternative energy sources (not to mention creating jobs in related fields), to make the nation healthier through real health care reform, to make the nation smarter through investment in its education, and so much more. No ma’am. Carol Whatsit has no standing to oppose him because his agenda is the right one. His heart is in the right place. His God is personal to him. He reaches out to atheists, Muslims, and the people of Africa. He is intelligent. Sharp as a tack. Two steps ahead of all the talking heads. S(he) can criticize him all s(he) wants, but opposing him is wong. Morally wrong, especially for him or her, because s(he) presumes a respect for the office, if nothing else. And he occupies that office. Thank God. Oppose the “War President” and all his henchmen. But give this one a chance. He earned it in November. Let him see what he can do. And people like Carol Steam or whatever it is should not stand in the way. They are the Ann Coulters of the world, opposing him just in the hopes of making him fail. But neither should you oppose him. You should be a supporter. Not every detail of every plan can suit every person. We are squabbling over piddly shit, while he has consulted people of great economic, war-making, and scientific credentials. He has said that science will guide his decisions. Is this what you really want to oppose? Wait, let me see if I understand you here. You’re saying that it was okay to oppose Bush because you think he was doing something that was taking the country down a road that would be to its detriment. But one cannot oppose Obama on one of his programs if he or she thinks it is taking us down the wrong road. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/222 "2009-08-10T09:25:55Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > How do you feel about government welfare firemen and socialized army? And you better hope i don`t catch you making use of the socialized highway system. There’s nothing that sets off my road rage more than a douche bag poor-person-hating hypocrite driving on government welfare roads. And I’m assuming CM makes a point of only eating food that has not been subject to FDA regulations. Enforces laws vigilante style rather than rely on the police. And is fresh back from fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq as a one-man private army. From his posts I take it as a given he has never benefited from any public education though. Oh how posters like CM make me wish there were Obama-style Death-Panels back in whatever the day was. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/223 "2009-08-10T09:27:22Z")
oops - sorry. Didn’t realise this has become another Lib thread. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/224 "2009-08-10T09:29:50Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Hey, look, it’s tool time. It became Tool Time sometime in July 2006. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/225 "2009-08-10T11:29:19Z")
Gosh, Maybe we should go back to the Bush years, he did so much for our country! Our health care was perfect,we are so far ahead of what we were when he left office :D. It seems to me that when Bush came in they were trying to figure out what to do with the surplus. Then the war in Iraq cost us to go deeply in debt, and lost the respect of the rest of the world. Like it or not we do have to depend somewhat on the rest of the world. Bush was in for 8 years we didn’t have a terror attack but thousands of lives were lost in Iraq and it stirred up the crazies in the Muslim world that were convienced that the Taliban and Osama needed help because they belived the lie that the US was trying to take over their governments and religion. It doesn’t take many terrorists to kill them selves for what they are naively taught to accept. The first Bush was warned of this and because of it he didn’t go into Baghdad. Obama is in less than a year. Should there be a debate about his policies, Yes, but in a respectful truthful way. Not Just a small group of Fundies or people who want their religion to mandate the policies. Step aside and try to do what is best for all Americans; it is not an easy task to be taken care of in a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/226 "2009-08-10T13:44:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Wait, let me see if I understand you here. You’re saying that it was okay to oppose Bush because you think he was doing something that was taking the country down a road that would be to its detriment. But one cannot oppose Obama on one of his programs if he or she thinks it is taking us down the wrong road. Is that right? I think he’s saying that it was okay to oppose Bush because he committed fraud by misleading the American people in the run-up to the Iraq invasion, and Obama is not committing fraud. It’s a reasonable argument, I suppose, but since you don’t really know whether a President is telling the truth about something until long afterward (usually) it’s not a very sound principle in general. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/227 "2009-08-10T14:25:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Wait, let me see if I understand you here. You’re saying that it was okay to oppose Bush because you think he was doing something that was taking the country down a road that would be to its detriment. But one cannot oppose Obama on one of his programs if he or she thinks it is taking us down the wrong road. Is that right? I think this is pretty much it. If **Lib** agrees with him, no one has the moral right to oppose him. It’s the first step towards the _Fuhrerprinzip_, but fortunately it won’t fly in the real world. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/228 "2009-08-10T14:36:03Z")
Yes, it’s ridiculous. Liberal is saying the following: “My opinion is objectively correct, so if you disagree with my opinion then you are choosing not to believe an objective fact, exactly as if you had stated that water is not wet.” What a load. Anyone who posts “you do this too!!!” without a cite is preemptively invited to get fucked. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/229 "2009-08-10T14:53:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The difference is in the man. It is right to oppose a president who makes up things to tell us in order to get us to support the preemptive attack against innocent nations. But it is wrong to oppose a president who is working to restore our reputation abroad, to relieve the financial burdens of the middle class, to free us from energy independence by using his bully pulpit and his photo ops to push alternative energy sources (not to mention creating jobs in related fields), to make the nation healthier through real health care reform, to make the nation smarter through investment in its education, and so much more. No ma’am. Carol Whatsit has no standing to oppose him because his agenda is the right one. His heart is in the right place. His God is personal to him. He reaches out to atheists, Muslims, and the people of Africa. He is intelligent. Sharp as a tack. Two steps ahead of all the talking heads. S(he) can criticize him all s(he) wants, but opposing him is wong. Morally wrong, especially for him or her, because s(he) presumes a respect for the office, if nothing else. And he occupies that office. Thank God. Oppose the “War President” and all his henchmen. But give this one a chance. He earned it in November. Let him see what he can do. And people like Carol Steam or whatever it is should not stand in the way. They are the Ann Coulters of the world, opposing him just in the hopes of making him fail. But neither should you oppose him. You should be a supporter. Not every detail of every plan can suit every person. We are squabbling over piddly shit, while he has consulted people of great economic, war-making, and scientific credentials. He has said that science will guide his decisions. Is this what you really want to oppose? I think you’re way off here Liberal. I voted for Obama and still support him but I feel every right as a citizen to oppose him when I think he and Congress are headed in the wrong direction. More than a right it’s part of being a responsible citizen. IMHO the problem isn’t opposing him, it’s opposing him without knowledge. Honest discussion and debate is being replaced with uniformed shouting matches that are exploited by the media looking for sensationalism. The white house and those in Congress who support health care reform are partially to blame because they have failed to make their position and the details of of their plan clear as they tried to rush it through. They need to slow down and bring the transparency Obama spoke of during his campaign. They need to fight the fear mongers who spread lies with reason and tenacity. I think the American public is willing to listen if those in DC truly listen to their concerns. I think people are not interested in the fringe that seek to shout down the discussion and discourage any change. They are also not interested in more “rush this through it’s really vital” style BS. We’ve had enough of that in the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/230 "2009-08-10T15:33:35Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Bush was in for 8 years we didn’t have a terror attack Correction: We didn’t have a _ **second** _ terror attack. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/231 "2009-08-10T15:40:04Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Just curious. Are you ever capable of saying anything else when you toss in these stalkish one-liners? Am I not supposed to have my say? Are you the fucking hall monitor? You are a fucking idiot. All you can ever post is something about the thread being about me, when all the while your very post does itself present the thread as being about me. There is no “about Liberal”. What we are talking about is Obama, his agenda, and yes, the misunderstandings that some people have about my opinion of him. If that brings you in here to contribute nothing more than some self-fulfilling bumper sticker hag rag headline “have you stopped beating your wife” bullshit, then now that you have shat your contribution, are you done? Is there more? Chill, dude. I wasn’t attacking you. I did not mean to imply that YOU were making it “about Liberal”. I apologize if you took it as such. I don’t know where you get the idea I toss out stalkish one-liners, is there evidence that I do that? I was the OP of this thread and yes it was a bit thin on content, it was a rant, pure and simple. Again, I apologize that I offended you with my comment. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/232 "2009-08-10T15:42:58Z")
Goddamn, **Lib** , you’re forcing me to agree with **Shodan** and **Rand Rover**. Please, retract! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/233 "2009-08-10T15:50:32Z")
In reference to a couple of posts by **athelas** on page 2 (#68, to be exact): > [@](#): > > \*For some time now, SEIU, a services union, has been campaigning for the Obama plan. More organized than the anti-UHC campaigners the OP is talking about, its organizers have been alleged to have packed supposedly open meetings hosted by Democrat politicians with SEIU members. > > Allegedly, a conservative activist at Russ Carnahan’s town hall event was sent to the emergency room last night because of an attack by members of this union. Video of the incident has since surfaced. \* Some additional information has [since since](http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/7C2B91CFCB7B4D398625760D0008E6EA?OpenDocument) surfaced: > [@](#): > > \*ST. LOUIS — Kenneth Gladney sat in a wheelchair on Pershing Avenue Saturday, his knee bandaged, holding a flag that read: “Don’t Tread on Me.” > > Gladney, 38, was handing out the same flags after a town hall forum in Mehlville Thursday night, when, he says, he was attacked by members of the Service Employees International Union. > > Less than 48 hours later, protesters gathered Saturday in front of the union’s offices, many of them holding signs with a slightly different version of the message: “Don’t Tread on Kenny.”… > > Gladney did not address Saturday’s crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. “A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too.” Brown read. “This should never happen in this country.” > > Supporters cheered. **Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance.** \* Republicans: too fucking stupid for words. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/234 "2009-08-10T15:52:41Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance. The irony is so good I want to store it in barrels for future generations to enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/235 "2009-08-10T15:58:40Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Chill, dude. I wasn’t attacking you. I did not mean to imply that YOU were making it “about Liberal”. I apologize if you took it as such. I don’t know where you get the idea I toss out stalkish one-liners, is there evidence that I do that? I was the OP of this thread and yes it was a bit thin on content, it was a rant, pure and simple. > > Again, I apologize that I offended you with my comment. Apology accepted. I don’t know why it is, but it seems like someone (and maybe it isn’t you) tosses out this goddamn “all about Liberal” nonsense almost every time I’ve come into any thread to engage. It’s not my fault that ten people suddenly post responses, thereby ostensibly making it all about me. And whether it was your intention or not, adding fuel to that fire derails not just my own legitimate chance to express myself, but sometimes can derail the whole thread. In here, I am trying to convince people that Obama is a leader worthy of trust — that we should at least give him a chance to implement his policies before criticizing them. How would anyone know whether they’re stupid or brilliant so long as they’re only hypothetical? Anyway, I’m glad you stepped back a bit, and I probably lashed out at you more harshly than you deserved. But if you’ve been around the board for any length of time, you know that I am like an elephant walking into a room. I don’t mean to steal threads away from people, but being called idiotic or naive or enduring tiresome references to my medications ought to entitle me to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/236 "2009-08-10T16:01:02Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Goddamn, **Lib** , you’re forcing me to agree with **Shodan** and **Rand Rover**. Please, retract! And I’ve been forced to agree with monavis, probably for the first time ever. So it goes. But no. No retraction, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/237 "2009-08-10T16:12:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The irony is so good I want to store it in barrels for future generations to enjoy. We do not, currently, have any practical solution for the storage of toxic irony. Some have suggested a site at Yuck! Mountain, but the debate rages… And hey, **Big Svin** , whereya been? Your socialized internet collapse again? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/238 "2009-08-10T16:41:16Z")
Oh, you know me. I only appear when I hear a cry for help. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/239 "2009-08-10T16:46:21Z")
[**OH MY GOD – they killed Kenny!**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBoTEZxWkec) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/240 "2009-08-10T17:24:53Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > Republicans: too fucking stupid for words. That’s my favorite story to come out of this entire discussion. It’s just so perfect in its… perfection. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=13)