# THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665 "2009-08-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/241 "2009-08-10T17:33:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think this is pretty much it. If **Lib** agrees with him, no one has the moral right to oppose him. Sorry, you must be wrong. Because that would make no sense whatsoever. I’ll wait to see what **Liberal** has to say. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/242 "2009-08-10T17:43:54Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That’s my favorite story to come out of this entire discussion. It’s just so perfect in its… perfection. Damn it, at this rate the Republicans are going to deplete our national irony reserves before the end of Obama’s first term, and we’ll be left with nothing by recycled snark. Come on people, pace yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/243 "2009-08-10T17:53:25Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > For some reason economists don’t like employing people to dig holes and fill them up, either. I guess they just really hate workers. Relevance please. These people are called back to build cars. That is an actual industrial output. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/244 "2009-08-10T17:58:02Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Relevance please. These people are called back to build cars. That is an actual industrial output. They’re building cars that people will only buy if you give them $4,500.00 to do so. Paying people to build cars in order to drive them doesn’t seem _that_ different from the hole/unhole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/245 "2009-08-10T18:01:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sorry, you must be wrong. Because that would make no sense whatsoever. I’ll wait to see what **Liberal** has to say. It makes sense (sort of) if you understand how wonderful and perfect and brilliant and insightful and wise and patient and caring and generally superior the Perfect and Blessed Obama (pbuh) is. I get the feeling that if **Liberal** developed scrofulous tumors, he would beat feet to DC to have Obama lay the King’s Touch on him and be healed. And I no longer doubt that **Lib** means every word of it. It’s like **Polycarp** ’s bit a while ago about the gay teen Messiah from Wal-Mart. The fact that he means it doesn’t help - it’s even more offputting that way. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/246 "2009-08-10T20:05:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They’re building cars that people will only buy if you give them $4,500.00 to do so. Paying people to build cars in order to drive them doesn’t seem _that_ different from the hole/unhole thing. And how is it different from rebates or 2 for 1 sales at the supermarket? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/247 "2009-08-10T20:11:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The difference is in the man. It is right to oppose a president who makes up things to tell us in order to get us to support the preemptive attack against innocent nations. But it is wrong to oppose a president who is working to restore our reputation abroad, to relieve the financial burdens of the middle class, to free us from energy independence by using his bully pulpit and his photo ops to push alternative energy sources (not to mention creating jobs in related fields), to make the nation healthier through real health care reform, to make the nation smarter through investment in its education, and so much more. No ma’am. Carol Whatsit has no standing to oppose him because his agenda is the right one. His heart is in the right place. His God is personal to him. He reaches out to atheists, Muslims, and the people of Africa. He is intelligent. Sharp as a tack. Two steps ahead of all the talking heads. S(he) can criticize him all s(he) wants, but opposing him is wong. Morally wrong, especially for him or her, because s(he) presumes a respect for the office, if nothing else. And he occupies that office. Thank God. Oppose the “War President” and all his henchmen. But give this one a chance. He earned it in November. Let him see what he can do. And people like Carol Steam or whatever it is should not stand in the way. They are the Ann Coulters of the world, opposing him just in the hopes of making him fail. But neither should you oppose him. You should be a supporter. Not every detail of every plan can suit every person. We are squabbling over piddly shit, while he has consulted people of great economic, war-making, and scientific credentials. He has said that science will guide his decisions. Is this what you really want to oppose? Are you drawing a distinction here between legitimate and illegitimate reasons for opposition? Would it be reasonable to oppose a policy of Obama’s if you think it is not optimal for the country, and illegitimate to oppose him because you’re stupid enough to think he was born in Kenya, or is trying to make us socialist, or is trying to kill Sarah Palin’s baby? I’m sure you’re not saying we have to agree with everything - it appears that Obama is good at listening to alternate views, and even admitting when he screwed up, unlike some presidents I can mention? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/248 "2009-08-10T20:33:31Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Are you drawing a distinction here between legitimate and illegitimate reasons for opposition? Would it be reasonable to oppose a policy of Obama’s if you think it is not optimal for the country, and illegitimate to oppose him because you’re stupid enough to think he was born in Kenya, or is trying to make us socialist, or is trying to kill Sarah Palin’s baby? > > I’m sure you’re not saying we have to agree with everything - it appears that Obama is good at listening to alternate views, and even admitting when he screwed up, unlike some presidents I can mention? I heard someone comment the other day that Bush had a spine of steel when it came to doing what he felt was right while Obama seems to have one of plastic. In politics compromise and making deals is not a sign of weakness of weakness or cowardice. It is possible however to compromise too much. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/249 "2009-08-10T20:58:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And how is it different from rebates or 2 for 1 sales at the supermarket? The supermarket doesn’t do it using taxpayer monies, as far as I’m aware. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/250 "2009-08-11T01:05:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Are you drawing a distinction here between legitimate and illegitimate reasons for opposition? Would it be reasonable to oppose a policy of Obama’s if you think it is not optimal for the country, and illegitimate to oppose him because you’re stupid enough to think he was born in Kenya, or is trying to make us socialist, or is trying to kill Sarah Palin’s baby? > > I’m sure you’re not saying we have to agree with everything - it appears that Obama is good at listening to alternate views, and even admitting when he screwed up, unlike some presidents I can mention? Right, just as I mentioned upthread. There are times when the country needs a president who is a good administrator. There are times when the country needs a president who is meticulously moral. There are times when the country needs a president who is an expert in some field, like economics. And then there are times when the country needs a president who is a leader. This is the time for a leader, in my opinion. That is why I have supported him from the beginning, and continue to do so now. It seems to me that Democrats and Republicans are like Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. They argue, grandstand, bitch and fight over the tiniest minutiae of a bill, allowing the process to stall altogether, rather than join with one another in compromise to do what is optimal for the country. I’m saying that I don’t think it matters whether they pass Plan A or Plan B. This is a time when the US can reestablish its leadership role in the world as the beacon of liberty, but not when even his own party opposes him. It is a terrible shame to waste the talents of a man with such a great intellect, personality, and wisdom. I’ve read his books. I know what he holds dear. He is not in this for the power trip. He is in this because he honestly believes that he can restore America to its former greatness. Opposing him is opposing that. And leaders of his calibre don’t come around every day. They are once in a lifetime. Look. He isn’t asking for a crown or a throne. He isn’t asking for money to attack Syria. All he’s asking for is support for his vision. I can understand why Republicans oppose him. But I cannot for the life of me understand why Democrats do. What’s the harm in letting him try things his way? God knows, the alternates haven’t worked. What’s the worst that could happen? It wouldn’t work? Fine. Big deal. But why not give his plans a chance? I don’t know what to say beyond what I’ve said. I’m there for him through thick and thin. That’s what I’d like to see from others. Sure he’s not perfect. So what. Fiddle farting over piddly shit isn’t doing one thing to help the country. But helping is what he’s determined to do. Read his books. See for yourself. I tell you one thing for sure. Use him while you have him, because there won’t be another one like him for a long long time. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/251 "2009-08-11T01:26:51Z")
Who said the Democrats oppose him? Jesus, **Lib** , they’re politicians, they’re going to disagree – that’s how politics WORK. God, this hero worship is creepy. He’s not Superman. Yes, he’s someone to admire. He IS intelligent, capable, and I think he’ll do a good job – hell, I voted for him, didn’t I? But I don’t think the dems should just say, “Okay, we’ll give your plans a chance, here goes!” MY response would be to offer up some suggestions of my own. Compromise, it’s how things go in our government, dude. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/252 "2009-08-11T01:41:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Right, just as I mentioned upthread. There are times when the country needs a president who is a good administrator. There are times when the country needs a president who is meticulously moral. There are times when the country needs a president who is an expert in some field, like economics. And then there are times when the country needs a president who is a leader. This is the time for a leader, in my opinion. That is why I have supported him from the beginning, and continue to do so now. It seems to me that Democrats and Republicans are like Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. They argue, grandstand, bitch and fight over the tiniest minutiae of a bill, allowing the process to stall altogether, rather than join with one another in compromise to do what is optimal for the country. I’m saying that I don’t think it matters whether they pass Plan A or Plan B. This is a time when the US can reestablish its leadership role in the world as the beacon of liberty, but not when even his own party opposes him. It is a terrible shame to waste the talents of a man with such a great intellect, personality, and wisdom. I’ve read his books. I know what he holds dear. He is not in this for the power trip. He is in this because he honestly believes that he can restore America to its former greatness. Opposing him is opposing that. And leaders of his calibre don’t come around every day. They are once in a lifetime. > > Look. He isn’t asking for a crown or a throne. He isn’t asking for money to attack Syria. All he’s asking for is support for his vision. I can understand why Republicans oppose him. But I cannot for the life of me understand why Democrats do. What’s the harm in letting him try things his way? God knows, the alternates haven’t worked. What’s the worst that could happen? It wouldn’t work? Fine. Big deal. But why not give his plans a chance? I don’t know what to say beyond what I’ve said. I’m there for him through thick and thin. That’s what I’d like to see from others. Sure he’s not perfect. So what. Fiddle farting over piddly shit isn’t doing one thing to help the country. But helping is what he’s determined to do. Read his books. See for yourself. I tell you one thing for sure. Use him while you have him, because there won’t be another one like him for a long long time. Unbelievable. From you of all people, who I consider a bit of an intellectual. Just keep your mouth shut and let them man run roughshod. So much for ideas succeeding on their merits. So much for checks and balances. So much for the rest of elected officials. So much for some really smart people who are not politicians. You’re enamored with Obama, good for you. But he’s not the fucking messiah. He’s not a demigod. He’s just a man. One that will have good ideas and bad. Maybe he’ll have more good ones. Let’s hope so. Especially with the compliance of people like you and good chunk of the media. Why don’t we just give him a crown and scepter for the next four years? You want him to just have his way, and, if he is wrong, big deal. Problem is that a lot of decisions at that level have huge ramifications, they set wheels in motion that can take years, decades to stop and reverse. I’ve got news for you **Lib** : as great as Obama might be, he ain’t a tenth of the gift you think he is. Thanks for explaining in yourself. Now I know where you stand. > [@Liberal](#): > > And leaders of his calibre don’t come around every day. They are once in a lifetime. From what I’ve seen so far, that may be all we can afford. If that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/253 "2009-08-11T02:26:44Z")
I said he wasn’t God before you did, so you aren’t even reading my posts. Sorry, but you’re like Guin, seeing what’s in your head and not what’s on the page. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/254 "2009-08-11T02:57:42Z")
That’s nice, Lib, you want props for saying Obama isn’t God. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/255 "2009-08-11T03:09:02Z")
I don’t want props for anything. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/256 "2009-08-11T07:09:44Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I said he wasn’t God before you did, so you aren’t even reading my posts. Sorry, but you’re like Guin, seeing what’s in your head and not what’s on the page. Yet, you want us to pronate ourselves before him. You said he was not God, yet you want us to treat him with Godlike deference. And try not to be a dick. I know it’s been difficult lately, but try, wouldya? Of course I read you fucking asinine post. With all those brains you claim to have in your head did you seriously read what I wrote and conclude that I just typed a reply randomly? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/257 "2009-08-11T07:26:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The supermarket doesn’t do it using taxpayer monies, as far as I’m aware. The contention was that it was stupid because no one would buy the cars without the discount. Maybe so, but no more stupid than when the car companies do it. Where the money comes from has no influence on whether or not it is a good sales strategy. It obviously is. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/258 "2009-08-11T08:59:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I don’t want props for anything. Fuck me, what the hell am I supposed to do with all these props now?! Anyone have a semi-built airplane? :mad: I think Rush, Shaw, Bill, Glenn, Mark, Anne, Laura, and a handful of other in the network are about as unAmerican as possible without treading into criminal activity. No, political discourse wasn’t peachy prior to their arrival on the scene. That (or the lack of a bright and fluffy future) is irrelevant to the vile affront to logic and rationality that they ejaculate onto the country. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/259 "2009-08-11T12:15:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And try not to be a dick. I know it’s been difficult lately, but try, wouldya? Of course I read you fucking asinine post. With all those brains you claim to have in your head did you seriously read what I wrote and conclude that I just typed a reply randomly? :rolleyes: Heh. I coulda posted the exact same thing to you in GD, when you asked me whether I’d even watched your precious video, after I’d objected to the video with its specific words and time stamps at which those words appeared. Before you ask someone else to try not to be a dick, pay attention to the beam in your own eye, wouldja? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/260 "2009-08-11T13:35:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Heh. I coulda posted the exact same thing to you in GD, when you asked me whether I’d even watched your precious video, after I’d objected to the video with its specific words and time stamps at which those words appeared. Before you ask someone else to try not to be a dick, pay attention to the beam in your own eye, wouldja? You coulda posted it. And it wouldn’t have made as much sense. As what I posted here is not the same thing as: “I can only assume you haven’t read the entire OP and/or watched the videos linked before your need to post was satisfied.” Note “entire” and “videoS”. There was no question you watched some, as we discussed it in detail. Given further discussion it seemed likely that you hadn’t read or watched all. But thanks for bringing stuff from an unrelated thread over here in your attempted “gotcha”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=14)