# THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665 "2009-08-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/321 "2009-08-13T16:09:50Z")
Is it true that God has a death panel? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/322 "2009-08-13T16:11:40Z")
Its more like a Wheel of Misfortune. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/323 "2009-08-13T16:18:44Z")
Gangster Octopus;11421531]I am calling out the far right wing nutjobs once and for all. I am not calling out the Shodan’s of the world, but he needs to be wary of these crazies hijacking the discourse of his wing. They show up at these town halls with placards and postcards comparing Obama to Hitler, calling the Democrats fascists, disrupting public meetings, questioning the birthplace of our President by lying through their teeth, and trying to short-circuit Democracy. Hitler? Fascist? Do they even know what they are talking about? An ultra-nationalistic philosophy, opposed to homosexuality and women’s rights. Opposed to democracy, relying on a Dictator. It’s insanity and stupidity. > [@](#): > > An d I feel they are anti-American, knowingly lying when questioning the validity of the President, disrupting true discourse, the backbone of Democracy, through their intimidation and yelling (I am not calling for it to be illegal, I am just saying their actions are anti-democratic and despicable Sweet Jesus!!! I am astounded when liberals bitch, moan, gripe, whine and complain about conservatives “disrupting” town hall meetings. PC liberals invented the modern day “shout downs”. Remember the Minute Men? They knowingly lie and do not argue facts. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with someone being honestly opposed to Health Insurance Reform from the administration-wing who are not these people, who do value discourse and the truth and not hyperbole and fear. It is unfortunate that even these folks get shouted down and shut out. These folks are the fringe but they are defining the right, like it or not. And it is no wonder the Republican Party is becoming a fringe, regional, aging, white party that cannot help but shout itself into irrelevance. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/324 "2009-08-13T16:23:36Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > Sweet Jesus!!! I am astounded when liberals bitch, moan, gripe, whine and complain about conservatives “disrupting” town hall meetings. PC liberals invented the modern day “shout downs”. Remember the Minute Men? The anticommunist group? The Massachusetts militia? The punk band? ETA: Or the “border watch” groups? I think you’ll find neither the first nor the latter were very liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/325 "2009-08-13T16:56:12Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Even if all our federal representatives unanimously voted to form a federal committee for the promotion of peanut butter, and the president agreed, it would still be unconstitutional. In other words, it is not allowed to do anything it wants. We have a \*\*\*limited \*\*\*federal government. It’s true that there are limits on the federal government, but the example doesn’t show this. Since peanut butter is sold in interstate and international trade, the federal government can quite lawfully promote its use. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/326 "2009-08-13T17:10:33Z")
…as a lubricant. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/327 "2009-08-13T17:14:10Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Wrong. I have the choice to not use my employer’s plan. I can buy my own insurance, or I can pay out of pocket. Most Americans, even if employed, do not have enough money to make either of the latter options feasible. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/328 "2009-08-13T17:27:49Z")
Why aren’t these people supporting the health care package? Most people think Health Care needs reforming. Well from what I can tell there are things they don’t want: No Death Panels…check, there are no death panels No forced abortions…check, there are no forced abortions No public funding for abortions…check, there is no funding for forced abortions Maintain current health insurer if I want…check, a public option is just that, a n option Government should not have access to my bank accounts…check, the govenrment will not have access to your bank accounts Great, now that we have these issues out fo the way, time to discuss the legitimate concerns about health care. How will it be paid for? Will it really reduce costs? Will it put private insurers out of business? etc. BTW, I am for a public option, but I do think, of course, there are legitimate questions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/329 "2009-08-13T18:44:33Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Wrong. I have the choice to not use my employer’s plan. I can buy my own insurance, or I can pay out of pocket. **The socialists do not want me to have a choice, which is why I label them totalitarian.** Bolding mine. Got a cite for that? :rolleyes: > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > socialists And you keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Good god, you are fucking paranoid. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/330 "2009-08-14T00:39:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Bolding mine. Got a cite for that? Do you desire a single-payer system? If so, I assume it means I would no longer have the freedom to pay for private healthcare out of my pocket? > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Good god, you are fucking paranoid. Cite? LOL. At least I’m paying taxes, and hence contributing to society. Some people give, some people take. As a lazy welfare queen, you, I’m afraid, fall in the latter category. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/331 "2009-08-14T01:01:24Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It was easy for Jesus because according to the Gospel writer He sent Peter to go and catch a fish and the fish would have the money in it’s mouth for the money to pay His taxes and Peter’s. Right. But I’m not sure what that has to do with the point I was making: the spy was carrying around graven images, a thing against the law he taught. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/332 "2009-08-14T01:38:07Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Do you desire a single-payer system? If so, I assume it means I would no longer have the freedom to pay for private healthcare out of my pocket? Honestly? I don’t know yet. I’d like to see how the current plans for UHC go – I want to see people have an OPTION for government health care. I don’t want to take away private healthcare/insurance from anyone. > [@](#): > > Cite? LOL. At least I’m paying taxes, and hence contributing to society. Some people give, some people take. As a lazy welfare queen, you, I’m afraid, fall in the latter category. :rolleyes: Nice dodge. You also completely missed that, as I stated previously, I AM NOT ON WELFARE, dumbass. I understand it’s hard for you to pick up on things, being that you don’t seem to understand the meaning of certain concepts and such, but again, I assure you, no, I do not collect welfare. Nor do I think the government is somehow “taking away our freedoms”. Because if you honestly think the system we have now is somehow “free”, you’re a grade-A moron. Do you know how many people are denied coverage, due to a pre-existing condition, or have their claims rejected? Or lose their coverage, due to being laid off, changing jobs, their employers don’t provide it, or just plain can’t afford it? But you keep on railing against your boogeyman, dude. Keep on truckin’!!! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/333 "2009-08-14T01:47:52Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Great, now that we have these issues out fo the way, time to discuss the legitimate concerns about health care. > > How will it be paid for? > Will it really reduce costs? > Will it put private insurers out of business? > > etc. > > BTW, I am for a public option, but I do think, of course, there are legitimate questions. I’d like to have a discussion about these legitimate questions, but the number of lies flying on this board is embarrassing. I’m ashamed of it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/334 "2009-08-14T01:52:16Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > So I have the choice and freedom not to get health insurance? I have the choice and freedom to pay a doctor out of my pocket? I have the choice and freedom not to offer health insurance to my employees regardless of anything else? If so, I like your plan. 🙂 As far as I’m concerned you have the freedom to choose who will govern you — or if anyone will at all. You have a lot to learn about liberalism. It all begins with the private ownership of property. As Ludwig von Mises put it: “The program of liberalism, therefore, if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property, that is, private ownership of the means of production… All the other demands of liberalism result from his fundamental demand.” ([Cite](http://mises.org/liberal.asp).) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/335 "2009-08-14T01:53:36Z")
I was always under the impression that the onus on graven images had to do with worshiping those images, not so much whether or not they are “graven”. So I took the meaning to advise Christians not to resist taxation and the other vexations of governance, since those were trivial matters. After all, what doth it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? I should note that I was raised by Methodists, so I can speak with some authority on these matters. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/336 "2009-08-14T02:00:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You also completely missed that, as I stated previously, I AM NOT ON WELFARE, dumbass. You are a grown woman who lives at home. You are on mommy and daddy welfare. You don’t contribute shit to society. If you were to die tomorrow only about three people would notice (mommy, daddy, and the guy who has to haul your rotting red-headed corpse from the basement). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/337 "2009-08-14T02:00:22Z")
@ Luc I’m not sure what I was raised as. My dad was kicked out of at least one church for (and I’m serious, I swear) playing his guitar in a music hall. Then he died, and my drill seargent brother came home, making my life a living hell through puberty. By high school, I was an atheist hippie Marxist. So, I was raised as a piece of trash, I guess. Jesus, Rand Lover and Guin. Can’t you two get a room? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/338 "2009-08-14T02:36:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Jesus, Rand Lover and Guin. Can’t you two get a room? I could go for an angry spite fuck. Guin? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/339 "2009-08-14T02:38:43Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Rand Lover Papa Freud, he say… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/340 "2009-08-14T12:01:37Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You are a grown woman who lives at home. You are on mommy and daddy welfare. You don’t contribute shit to society. If you were to die tomorrow only about three people would notice (mommy, daddy, and the guy who has to haul your rotting red-headed corpse from the basement). Unlike **Guin** , who sits on her fat ass all day while posting on the computer, you and I are paying thousands of dollars in taxes each year. Yet she lectures us how we’re “mean” and “selfish.” :rolleyes: She claims she can’t contribute to society because she doesn’t have health insurance (LOL!), which is a load of BS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=18)