# THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665 "2009-08-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/41 "2009-08-08T15:56:03Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Ah. So Cindy Sheehan, with the lies, hyperboles, and personal attacks, [not fine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_sheehan#Chronology_of_activism)? Could’ve sworn I heard the opposite at some point… Way to prove **LHoD’s** point, dumbass. The [lies](http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200508160009), [hyperboles](http://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCoulter/2005/08/18/cindy_sheehan_commander_in_grief?page=full&comments=true), and [personal attacks](http://www.cindysheehanwatch.com/sheehan_treehouse_top_ten.html) launched _against_ Cindy Sheehan make David Letterman’s gibes sound like vaudeville routines. Also: your little wiki cite, no mention of the ultraviolence at all, droogie. Your lame attempt at equivocation… not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/42 "2009-08-08T15:57:02Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Ah. So Cindy Sheehan, with the lies, hyperboles, and personal attacks, [not fine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_sheehan#Chronology_of_activism)? Could’ve sworn I heard the opposite at some point… Holy shit, dude! I have news for you! LEFTISTS ARE NOT A HIVE MIND! I’ll wait while you reassemble the pieces of your blown mind. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/43 "2009-08-08T16:06:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Damn right. Look at cash for clunkers. For chicken feed it is driving people back to showrooms, getting Ford to have an actual increase in sales, preserving jobs, and helping the environment more than predicted. The only downside was that it was more popular than imagined, and so ran out of money. And they are having a fit, trying to invent reasons why it is bad for America. > > As Jon Stewart said the other night, tell these people they won the lottery and they’ll whine about having to buy a wallet. GM and Chrysler added 28,000 jobs to keep up with the demand in the cash for clunkers program. That is bad to conservatives. I just do not know why. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/44 "2009-08-08T16:19:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > GM and Chrysler added 28,000 jobs to keep up with the demand in the cash for clunkers program. That is bad to conservatives. I just do not know why. Well, for one, it’s a success for a Democratic president. Two, it’s a success for a black Democratic president. Three, it is a data point to put the lie to one of the bulwarks of conservative ideology, that government involvement will always lead to misery and ruin. This is not to say that this is a sustainable, long term program. Honestly, I don’t have enough information to say one way or the other, and I suspect that it is not, budget-wise. But it seems to be helping for now. Four, those are union jobs. O noes! I’m probably leaving out a few hundred more. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/45 "2009-08-08T16:23:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > GM and Chrysler added 28,000 jobs to keep up with the demand in the cash for clunkers program. That is bad to conservatives. I just do not know why. For some reason economists don’t like employing people to dig holes and fill them up, either. I guess they just really hate workers. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/46 "2009-08-08T16:34:36Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Hello, pot? This is kettle. > > [You’re black.](http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/06/how-to-dress-like-an-authentic-grass-roots-activist/) > > (I especially like the t-shirt with Bush’s face in the middle of a swastika.) Why do conservatives keep referencing [Michelle Malkin](http://michellemalkin.com)? Linking to an ultra-right nut job does not support your case that Republicans are not ultra-right nut jobs. Maybe try Rush, O’Reily, or Glen Beck for a more credible source. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/47 "2009-08-08T16:38:07Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > There are some people out there who believe we must fight against socialism. I am one of those people. Crafter\_Man, I am curious about your views. What does socialism mean to you? You said in another thread that socialism is evil because you believe in the free individual. Here is the quote for you: > [@Why are conservatives such dicks?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-such-dicks/505657/100): > > Socialism already has a definition – look it up. Why do I need to re-define it? > > As for why I believe it is evil… because I believe in the free individual. What would be more interesting is why you believe socialism is such a good thing. I used your “let me google that for you” link (which, btw, is cool) and went to the first entry: wikipedia. Wikipedia seems to have a good definition of socialism. [Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism) is a taste: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Socialism refers to any one of various theories of economic organization advocating state, public or common worker ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a more egalitarian method of compensation.\ [/QUOTE] Fair enough. I am not for socialism either. I think it would be a bad idea and I would fight against it also. To me, free market capitalism seems to be a much better system. Now that that is over, I have two questions for you: 1. What does socialism have to do with individual freedom? 2. What does the health care plan under discussion have to do with socialism? Finally, some bonus questions: 1. What do you think of Medicare? Are you going to partake when you are over 65? Would you eliminate Medicare, SCHip and medicaid if you could? What about the VA hospitals? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/48 "2009-08-08T16:40:22Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > For some reason economists don’t like employing people to dig holes and fill them up, either. I guess they just really hate workers. Stop! Who would cross the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, 'ere the other side he see! What … is your name? What … is your quest? What … is the economic value of an unfill hole as compared to the economic value of a Dodge Viper? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/49 "2009-08-08T17:05:35Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] I am calling out the far right wing nutjobs once and for all. [/QUOTE] They’re shaking in their shiny leather boots. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/50 "2009-08-08T17:07:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Given that every other country in the first world can do it, I think we’ll be fine. Or are Americans incompetent in your world? We put a man on the fucking Moon - I’d say we can provide heath care to all Americans given that we’re doing a perfectly fine job of providing it to all Americans over 65, all Americans in military service, all Americans in Congress and a pretty good number of poor Americans and American children. Anyone who says we can’t do as good a job for the rest of us Americans is either a liar or a damn fool. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/51 "2009-08-08T17:26:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Given that every other country in the first world can do it, I think we’ll be fine. Or are Americans incompetent in your world? One of the more baffling arguments, to me, is the “Americans are so exceptional that they are exceptionally incompetent” argument. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/52 "2009-08-08T18:25:35Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > 1. What does socialism have to do with individual freedom? Socialism is paid for with my income tax. My money is my property. When they take my property, they take my freedom. > [@L. G. Butts](#): > > What does the health care plan under discussion have to do with socialism? Socialists want the federal government to control every aspect of healthcare; in essence they want the federal government to own the healthcare business. > [@L. G. Butts](#): > > 1. What do you think of Medicare? Are you going to partake when you are over 65? I’ll pay for my own healthcare. I have never, and will never, accept welfare from the federal government. > [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Would you eliminate Medicare, SCHip and medicaid if you could? What about the VA hospitals? I would end any and all involvement of the federal government in healthcare. The federal government does not have the authority to have anything to do with healthcare. If you desire government-run healthcare, you should look to your state government, not the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/53 "2009-08-08T18:26:11Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > For some reason economists don’t like employing people to dig holes and fill them up, either. I guess they just really hate workers. Except for, y’know, [possibly the most influential economist of the twentieth century](http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money_politics/archives/2009/02/stimulus_keynes.html). > [@John Maynard Keynes](#): > > “To dig holes in the ground,” paid for out of savings, will increase, not only employment, but the real national dividend of useful goods and services. He goes on to say that… > [@](#): > > It is not reasonable, however, that a sensible community should be content to remain dependent on such fortuitous and often wasteful mitigations when once we understand the influences upon which effective demand depends. In other words, if you can come up with something better (say, taking gas-guzzlers off the road and putting people in newer, more efficient cars), that’s what a sensible community would do. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/54 "2009-08-08T18:47:41Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If you desire government-run healthcare, you should look to your state government, not the federal government. So you’re fine with localized socialism, but not with nationalized socialism. Besides the scale, is there a fundamental difference between the two? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/55 "2009-08-08T19:37:32Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Socialism is paid for with my income tax. My money is my property. When they take my property, they take my freedom. The Supreme Court disagrees with you. Taxes are completely legal and constitutional, and yammering about your “freedom” doesn’t change that one whit. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’ll pay for my own healthcare. I have never, and will never, accept welfare from the federal government. I don’t believe you. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If you desire government-run healthcare, you should look to your state government, not the federal government. Why? What difference does it make? Are state governments somehow more capable or knowledgeable than the federal government? Is there something special in state constitutions that gives them the authority to administer healthcare? And why does “promote the general welfare” not allow the federal government to have anything to do with healthcare? Also, is the VA unconstitutional? Our soldiers get very good healthcare provided directly by Uncle Sam. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/56 "2009-08-08T19:46:26Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Socialism is paid for with my income tax. My money is my property. When they take my property, they take my freedom. > Socialists want the federal government to control every aspect of healthcare; in essence they want the federal government to own the healthcare business. > I’ll pay for my own healthcare. I have never, and will never, accept welfare from the federal government. > I would end any and all involvement of the federal government in healthcare. The federal government does not have the authority to have anything to do with healthcare. If you desire government-run healthcare, you should look to your state government, not the federal government. Heh. You’d be a shit covered dirt farmer if it wasn’t for the American Government. The government gives you way more than you give it. They give you safe roads to travel on, they give you clean water, they give you an economy that allows you to have a job and prosper. The government protects you from criminals with the police, from fires with the fire department and from invaders with the military. Public schools give us the workforce necessary to make all this happen. Our economy exists because of regulation protecting the weak, like you, from monolithic corporate interests. You’ve been sucking at the teat of the government your whole life, you’d be a worthless failure without them. Huh… more than now I mean. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/57 "2009-08-08T19:52:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Why? What difference does it make? Are state governments somehow more capable or knowledgeable than the federal government? Is there something special in state constitutions that gives them the authority to administer healthcare? And why does “promote the general welfare” not allow the federal government to have anything to do with healthcare? Also, is the VA unconstitutional? Our soldiers get very good healthcare provided directly by Uncle Sam. We have a limited federal government - the federal government can’t do anything it wants, regardless of what the majority of the reps agree on. Again, it is limited. (I assume you were taught this in grade school.) The powers of our federal government are very few, and are listed in the federal constitution. According to the 10th Amendment, all other powers and responsibilities must be left to the states. If we do not have a limited federal govenrment, then we should just throw away the federal constitution, as there would be no need for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/58 "2009-08-08T19:52:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > …Our soldiers get very good healthcare provided directly by Uncle Sam. Yeah, well, you just wait till the government gets its hands on Medicare! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/59 "2009-08-08T20:47:23Z")
From _Coupling_ (‘Size Matters’): > [@](#): > > Howard: Typical lefty puritan. > > Sally: Typical what? Come the revolution… > > Patrick: What revolution!? You guys are in power! We’re the revolution now! > > Sally: No. No, it can’t be right! > > Patrick: You’re the evil empire. > > Sally: No! > > Howard: Yes! Like Star Wars, and Patrick and me are the rebel alliance. [He and Patrick start doing the _Star Wars_ theme, Jeff joins shortly after] > > Sally: No! You’re not the goodies, we’re the goodies! We’re lefties!! We’re always goodies! > > Patrick: [Puts glass on his mouth and makes a Darth Vader voice] No, Sally. You’re the establishment. > > Sally: Don’t say that! You bastard. > > Patrick: Ah, you can’t call me bastard anymore, that’s oppressive. [Does a mock wail] You’re oppressing me! ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/60 "2009-08-08T22:54:31Z")
You shouldn’t be so rude. I am a fascist, and not a traitor, and i love America just as much as you do. I do not like democracy, and cannot see where a Dictator could be any worse than what you are doing. You are attacking people for exercising their First Amendment rights, and you condemn them as anti-American. I suspect that you would lock them away and worse for disagreeing with your point of view, am I correct? These white aging elements that you so despise are what the left, and the right, used to call ‘people.’ But, because they cannot stomach the high handedness of the current regime, you call them names that you do not understand. You have no conception of what democracy entails any more than fascism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=4)