# THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665 "2009-08-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/61 "2009-08-08T23:02:52Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > We have a limited federal government - the federal government can’t do anything it wants, regardless of what the majority of the reps agree on. Again, it is limited. (I assume you were taught this in grade school.) The powers of our federal government are very few, and are listed in the federal constitution. According to the 10th Amendment, all other powers and responsibilities must be left to the states. > > If we do not have a limited federal govenrment, then we should just throw away the federal constitution, as there would be no need for it. Prove this with citations. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/62 "2009-08-08T23:11:25Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > Prove this with citations. Well, the first part would be the tenth amendment: > [@the bill of rights](#): > > X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. I think that shows that the federal government can’t do anything it wants, so it is limited (with the obvious caveat that it could amend the constitution to do anything it wants–that’s a pretty difficult process). That the powers of the federal government are very few, however, seems false to me. “Very few” compared to what? The federal constitution has some tremendous leeway in it for the powers of the federal government, as evidenced by the past 100 years. I think that idea, that the powers of the federal government are very few, flies in the face of reality. I’ll cite areas in which the federal government has power if anyone needs, but I think this part is self-evident. Some may whinge about how the gummint doesn’t really have those powers. Truth is, the government has whatever powers are its own by settled law. There is no St. Uncle Sam looking down from on high granting powers divinely. If settled law decrees that, for example, the Department of Education is a legit federal power, then it is. It’s untrue that all other powers must be left to the states: they can also be left to “the people.” That’s a nitpick, though. The last sentence is a statement of opinion. The only potentially factual thing in it is the final clause: “. . . as there would be no need for it.” That presumes there’s some sort of need for it anyway. I suggest that there is a need for the Constitution, but that if the government were unlimited, there would be even more of a need for it. So I’m not sure what CM is getting at here. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/63 "2009-08-09T00:14:28Z")
For some time now, [SEIU](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEIU), a services union, has been campaigning for the Obama plan. More organized than the anti-UHC campaigners the OP is talking about, its organizers have been alleged to have packed supposedly open meetings hosted by Democrat politicians with SEIU members. Allegedly, a conservative activist at Russ Carnahan’s town hall event was sent to the emergency room last night because of an attack by members of this union. [Video](http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/08/07/getting-in-their-faces-st-louis/) of the incident has since surfaced. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/64 "2009-08-09T00:15:59Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’ll pay for my own healthcare. I have never, and will never, accept welfare from the federal government. How do you feel about government welfare firemen and socialized army? And you better hope i don`t catch you making use of the socialized highway system. There’s nothing that sets off my road rage more than a douche bag poor-person-hating hypocrite driving on government welfare roads. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/65 "2009-08-09T00:17:39Z")
Really a good idea to put in lots and lots of “allegedly” when trying to pass off something from Red State as a cite. Good thinking. And union members attending Democrat meetings! Gasp! I clutch my pearls, I swoon. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/66 "2009-08-09T00:21:41Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Allegedly, a conservative activist at Russ Carnahan’s town hall event was sent to the emergency room last night because of an attack by members of this union. [Video](http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/08/07/getting-in-their-faces-st-louis/) of the incident has since surfaced. Good thing there was a camera because it seems pretty clear from it that the anti-American conservatives were the ones attacking the SEIU members. The terrorist probably wound up at the ER merely because conservatives are all pussies. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/67 "2009-08-09T00:23:56Z")
And let’s not forget – this “money” of his – I sure hope you don’t use cash. After all, it ain’t the state printing it out. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/68 "2009-08-09T00:29:11Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Hello, pot? This is kettle. > > [You’re black.](http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/06/how-to-dress-like-an-authentic-grass-roots-activist/) > > (I especially like the t-shirt with Bush’s face in the middle of a swastika.) You’ve got to admit though, liberals had more to work with when it cam to Hitler comparisons with Bush invading a non-aggressive country because he said they were a threat, threatening others, etc. Definitely a better Hitler comparison than somebody who wants to provide healthcare to poor sick people and reduce the overall cost of healthcare for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/69 "2009-08-09T00:31:56Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Definitely a better Hitler comparison than somebody who wants to provide healthcare to poor sick people and reduce the overall cost of healthcare for everybody. But that’s just the first step! The second step is unicorns and huggles, which are more Hitlerian than just about anything. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/70 "2009-08-09T00:36:09Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Check out the Yahoo! Answers Politics section for some REAL right-wing lunacy regarding Obama. They make the craziest SDMB right-winger look like Colin Powell. [How appropriate.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo_(Gulliver%27s_Travels)) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/71 "2009-08-09T00:41:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not everyone, but fortunately those that do are most of the same people who didn’t want to talk about MoveOn and all that. . . . Eh? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/72 "2009-08-09T00:42:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > We have a limited federal government - the federal government can’t do anything it wants, regardless of what the majority of the reps agree on. Better bone up on the [Commerce Clause](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_clause), friend. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/73 "2009-08-09T00:55:11Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > You’ve got to admit though, liberals had more to work with when it cam to Hitler comparisons with Bush invading a non-aggressive country because he said they were a threat, threatening others, etc. Now that’s unfair. The dictatorship Hitler invaded was right next door, not half a world away, and they had weapons of mass destruction - horses. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/74 "2009-08-09T00:56:27Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > We have a limited federal government - the federal government can’t do anything it wants, regardless of what the majority of the reps agree on. Again, it is limited. (I assume you were taught this in grade school.) The powers of our federal government are very few, and are listed in the federal constitution. According to the 10th Amendment, all other powers and responsibilities must be left to the states. > > If we do not have a limited federal govenrment, then we should just throw away the federal constitution, as there would be no need for it. Of course we have limited government. Two centuries of Supreme Court decisions have placed those limits differently from where you’d want to place them, but that’s your tough luck. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/75 "2009-08-09T01:03:35Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well that and once UHC is passed you can’t revoke it, the government will be stuck forever in a cycle of fixing it if it doesn’t work. So? You might say the same about Social Security, but we’re still better off than if it had never been enacted. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/76 "2009-08-09T01:05:48Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The government gives you way more than you give it. They give you safe roads to travel on, they give you clean water, they give you an economy that allows you to have a job and prosper. The government protects you from criminals with the police, from fires with the fire department and from invaders with the military. Public schools give us the workforce necessary to make all this happen. Our economy exists because of regulation protecting the weak, like you, from monolithic corporate interests. Besides paved roads, effective police, a fire department, the department of defense, public schools, and business regulations, what has the American government ever done for us? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/77 "2009-08-09T01:06:56Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > There are some people out there who believe we must fight against socialism. I am one of those people. There some people who have stupidly accepted the right’s dishonest redefinition of “socialism” as, not merely government ownership of the means of production, but government provision of public services. You are one of those people. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/78 "2009-08-09T01:09:07Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Besides paved roads, effective police, a fire department, the department of defense, public schools, and business regulations, what has the American government ever done for us? What about libraries? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/79 "2009-08-09T01:23:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What about libraries? Name one thing a library offers that isn`t done better by private enterprise. And by private enterprise, I mean Blockbuster. Sure, it's not government welfare/free, but you don`t have to read all the little letters and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/80 "2009-08-09T01:27:33Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Definitely a better Hitler comparison than somebody who wants to provide healthcare to poor sick people and reduce the overall cost of healthcare for everybody. How do we expand coverage, at a lower total cost? That’s quite the parlor trick, there. Unless Obama really was born in a manger? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=5)