# THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665 "2009-08-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/101 "2009-08-09T03:49:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > But will they ever be forced to have UHC if they ever find themselves in dire financial straits? > > Nevermind. Not happening. Members of Congess, sitting or former, generally do **not** find themselves in dire financial straits. For that matter, seriously **potential** members of Congress rarely – sometimes (see Dennis Kucinich’s personal history), but rarely – find themselves in dire financial straits. Just seems to work out that way. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/102 "2009-08-09T04:08:17Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > But will they ever be forced to have UHC if they ever find themselves in dire financial straits? > > Nevermind. Not happening. Why not? Take **BrainGlutton** ’s point to its logical conclusion: If they’re in dire financial straits, they’re very likely no longer Congresscritters, and therefore no longer have Congressional health coverage. If they’re in dire financial straits, they can’t afford private health insurance. So, what does that leave them? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/103 "2009-08-09T04:08:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > LOL Ladies and Gentlemen we have entered [bizarro world](http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/06/bill-oreilly-pens-love-letter-to-obama-in-parade-magazine/?icid=main%7Caimzones%7Cdl1%7Clink3%7Chttp://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/06/bill-oreilly-pens-love-letter-to-obama-in-parade-magazine/%0D%0A). Tha… that’s… that’s a joke, right? Right? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/104 "2009-08-09T04:11:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > LOL Ladies and Gentlemen we have entered [bizarro world](http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/06/bill-oreilly-pens-love-letter-to-obama-in-parade-magazine/?icid=main%7Caimzones%7Cdl1%7Clink3%7Chttp://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/06/bill-oreilly-pens-love-letter-to-obama-in-parade-magazine/%0D%0A). > [@Bill O'Reilly](#): > > That adds up to one simple truth that every American child should be told: “If Barack Obama can become the President of the United States, then whatever dream you may have can happen in your life.” Sorry to be a downer, but I’m not sure it’s wise to teach that lesson to kids. It’s a distinctly American message and there is much truth in it; but a far greater truth is that success stories like Obama’s are more the exception than the rule. If you have any imagination at all, most of your dreams will probably be unrealized. Hard work is no guarantee of success. That’s life, in America or anywhere else. If your dream is to be a great pianist, but you were not born with the necessary level of musical talent, then you will never be a great pianist, no matter how many hours of practice you put in. If you want to be a professional athlete, and you **have** great athletic talent . . . you probably won’t be a professional athlete. There’s not much room at the top. Only a small fraction of high-school athletic stars get to play on college teams and only a small fraction of those get into the pros. And, in any field of endeavor, a lot depends not only on native talent and hard work, but on sheer luck and getting the breaks and who-you-know. That’s just how it is, and while we should encourage kids to strive their hardest and do their best, we should not set them up for disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/105 "2009-08-09T04:34:59Z")
Well, how about, “kids, if you work hard, you could become President of the United States… but you won’t.”? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/106 "2009-08-09T04:54:52Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > How do you know he waas attacked by union people? He looked for the Union Label. o/` ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/107 "2009-08-09T06:27:01Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > :rolleyes: How about an independent body that sets the costs that grocery stores can charge? There’s an acceptable level of competition in the grocery industry that means we can leave it to supply and demand to get us cheap prices. There is no such competition in the healthcare insurance, hospital/doctor or pharmaceutical industry, rather a series of local monopolies. An independent body capable of taking into account both the payers and the payees of the industry would be a vast improvement on the current situation where the monopolies literally get to write the legislation that sets the terms and conditions under which they operate their business. It’s one of the ways in which we could make the healthcare market operate more like we expect a free market to operate, with freedom of movement, vigorous competition, extensive transparency and market knowledge between participants, resulting in a highly competitive marketplace where profits trend towards zero! But this doesn’t seem to be what the healthcare corporations want for some reason. Don’t you think it would be better than the current situation though? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/108 "2009-08-09T06:46:35Z")
I’ve asked this question, and maybe its too theoretical, but its bugging me. We know that the Big Insurance guys fuck people over for a profit, we got that part. But suppose they didn’t, suppose they stopped doing that shit tomorrow…could they still make a profit, or is cynical grubbing essential? Which might mean that any attempt to bring in competition while simultaneously cleaning up their act for them will fail, because if they behave like decent citizens, they will go broke. And if there’s no way a corporate entity can be humane and profitable at the same time, then why should we tolerate them at all? If they can’t do the right thing, well, gee, that’s too bad but does that me we pay them gross bucks to do wrong? (As far as impoverished Congresscrittes, by and large our representatives are from the finest, and have, historically, been men of substance. IIRC, there were a couple of occasions when a couple fell on embarrassingly hard times, and this made sitting critters squeamish. Long story short, Congresscritters have very, very generous retirement and pensions plans. And sometimes, very involved and concerned parole officers…) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/109 "2009-08-09T07:55:50Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Visited my mom this summer for the first time in like 4 years. She wouldn’t shut up about “that nigger in the white house” and blah and blah and this war is all his fault and this economy is all his fault and her retirement investments have tanked and it’s all his fault." She loved W, wished he could have gotten a 3rd term. > > Old, White and Southern she is. Meaningless. Lots of Old, White, and Southern people voted for Obama. The only true bigotry I recall seeing during the election involved rural areas of Pennsylvannia and West Virginia, both Union states. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GNFokenPInk/hqdefault.jpg ""Good American" Holds Racist Obama / Monkey Doll At Palin Rally") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNFokenPInk) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/110 "2009-08-09T09:01:35Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > And social security is the case in point usually used. If you think social security is a good thing you are probably pro UHC. If you think that it’s a bad thing you are probably anti-UHC. It’s one of my pet peeves when people try to act like their opponent is dishonest rather than addressing their arguments. If you are pro-socialism in these cases, be so, be so honestly, I am. But there ARE arguments against it and it comes from a different idea of organizing principles, and NOT some dishonest and hateful agenda. You mean Brainglutton’s doublespeak is dishonest, or that someone believes that SOCIAL services are a form of socialism are dishonest? Nitpicking connotation is a dishonest tactic. Dismissing people’s real concerns because they don’t use a word in the way you think it should be used, is dishonest. It’s a way that you can avoid actually having a debate and just clap your buddies on the back and congratulate yourselves on being smarter than everyone else. After all, conservatives are evil dumbasses, why should their opinion matter at all? They just need to shut up and let their betters handle the important stuff. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/111 "2009-08-09T09:03:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Sorry to be a downer, but I’m not sure it’s wise to teach that lesson to kids. It’s a distinctly American message and there is much truth in it; but a far greater truth is that success stories like Obama’s are more the exception than the rule. If you have any imagination at all, most of your dreams will probably be unrealized. Hard work is no guarantee of success. That’s life, in America or anywhere else. If your dream is to be a great pianist, but you were not born with the necessary level of musical talent, then you will never be a great pianist, no matter how many hours of practice you put in. If you want to be a professional athlete, and you **have** great athletic talent . . . you probably won’t be a professional athlete. There’s not much room at the top. Only a small fraction of high-school athletic stars get to play on college teams and only a small fraction of those get into the pros. And, in any field of endeavor, a lot depends not only on native talent and hard work, but on sheer luck and getting the breaks and who-you-know. That’s just how it is, and while we should encourage kids to strive their hardest and do their best, we should not set them up for disappointment. Yeah, I hate the, “You can do or be anything.”, message we tell little kids. It’s totally not true. And by trying to tell them to emulate the President it sets them up for disappointment when they are anything less than the President. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/112 "2009-08-09T09:05:49Z")
What we need is for some rich dude or dudes to endow a non-profit foundation with billions of dollars to create a privately run insurance company that doesn’t have to worry about shareholder profits. It could be done fairly easily if you could get a pledge from several billionaires to leave something of their fortune to such a business. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/113 "2009-08-09T09:15:45Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What we need is for some rich dude or dudes to endow a non-profit foundation with billions of dollars to create a privately run insurance company that doesn’t have to worry about shareholder profits. It could be done fairly easily if you could get a pledge from several billionaires to leave something of their fortune to such a business. Marvelous dry wit. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/114 "2009-08-09T09:17:56Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > When a _negro_ Democrat tries to fix it. > > Visited my mom this summer for the first time in like 4 years. She wouldn’t shut up about “that nigger in the white house” and blah and blah and this war is all his fault and this economy is all his fault and her retirement investments have tanked and it’s all his fault." She loved W, wished he could have gotten a 3rd term. > > Old, White and Southern she is. Kiss the hand that beats you because, hey, it’s attention, right? No, because it’s Calvinism. You deserve whatever you get in life, good or bad. But especially the bad. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/115 "2009-08-09T09:23:36Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Marvelous dry wit. _sigh_ unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/116 "2009-08-09T09:35:21Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Yeah, that’s great. I know there are whackos on the left, but you know what, they aren’t ruining the Democrats, the way the nutjobs do the right. They don’t have a TV networks of nutjobs to spout their nonsense. The numbers don’t lie, the Republicans are old, white, and southern and they are increasingly becoming irrelevant. Republican [registered. How i vote is nobodys business but mine] Female, 48, northern whitebread WASP. I am about as WASP as you can get … most of my family has been here since the 1600s… Did I mention I voted for Obama? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/117 "2009-08-09T09:38:52Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Damn right. Look at cash for clunkers. For chicken feed it is driving people back to showrooms, getting Ford to have an actual increase in sales, preserving jobs, and helping the environment more than predicted. The only downside was that it was more popular than imagined, and so ran out of money. And they are having a fit, trying to invent reasons why it is bad for America. > > As Jon Stewart said the other night, tell these people they won the lottery and they’ll whine about having to buy a wallet. Actually, I would prefer that the new cars the clunkers are to be replaced with were required to get over 30 MPG and be able to use alternate fuels instead of just over 18 MPG … other than that I think it is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/118 "2009-08-09T09:49:03Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > > [@mswas](#): > > > > And social security is the case in point usually used. If you think social security is a good thing you are probably pro UHC. If you think that it’s a bad thing you are probably anti-UHC. It’s one of my pet peeves when people try to act like their opponent is dishonest rather than addressing their arguments. If you are pro-socialism in these cases, be so, be so honestly, I am. But there ARE arguments against it and it comes from a different idea of organizing principles, and NOT some dishonest and hateful agenda. > > You mean Brainglutton’s doublespeak is dishonest, or that someone believes that SOCIAL services are a form of socialism are dishonest? > > Nitpicking connotation is a dishonest tactic. Dismissing people’s real concerns because they don’t use a word in the way you think it should be used, is dishonest. > > It’s a way that you can avoid actually having a debate and just clap your buddies on the back and congratulate yourselves on being smarter than everyone else. > > After all, conservatives are evil dumbasses, why should their opinion matter at all? They just need to shut up and let their betters handle the important stuff. Who are you asking? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/119 "2009-08-09T10:04:51Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I do not think Social Security or Medicare is constitutional, either. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/120 "2009-08-09T10:06:25Z")
I really do wonder how long Democrat Dopers can keep up the pretence that the health reform plans are wildly popular and it’s just a minority of nasty Republican fascists that are opposed to them. At the very least the nation is split in two on them, and a [closer analysis of the polling](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970204313604574330442429438938.html) shows Dems are losing ground rapidly on this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=7)