# THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665 "2009-08-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/161 "2009-08-09T22:40:27Z")
Not having the employer model is not the same thing as single payer. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/162 "2009-08-09T22:56:48Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > He ran on a campaign platform of extending health insurance to as many people as possible. His healthcare plan didn’t mention a single payer system. If you want to play semantics about campaigns and future goals versus actual policy statements, I’m afraid you’re going to have to play with yourself. 🙂 No matter how you try to spin it, your post “He never said he’d try for a single-payer system during the campaign.” is a LIE. He DID say his was trying for it, even if it took longer than his administration. Why do you keep saying otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/163 "2009-08-09T23:05:23Z")
Because it is too trivial for rebuttal? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/164 "2009-08-09T23:13:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Because it is too trivial for rebuttal? I guess lying is “too trivial” if it goes your way, but if the other Party does it, watch out! Right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/165 "2009-08-09T23:18:32Z")
No, the semantic distinction is too trivial to pursue. As soon as Obama lies us into a futile and disastrous war, get back to me on that second part. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/166 "2009-08-09T23:21:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, the semantic distinction is too trivial to pursue. As soon as Obama lies us into a futile and disastrous war, get back to me on that second part. I hardly think that the difference between “single payer” and “choice and competition” is as small as you seem to think. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/167 "2009-08-09T23:52:51Z")
DOn’t you get, a public option will be so efficiently run by the government that it will wipe out the private insurers, who are clearly not as efficient. And we don’t want that because the government is extremely inefficient and the market is very efficient. Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/168 "2009-08-09T23:54:41Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I really do wonder how long Democrat Dopers can keep up the pretence that the health reform plans are wildly popular and it’s just a minority of nasty Republican fascists that are opposed to them. At the very least the nation is split in two on them, and a [closer analysis of the polling](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970204313604574330442429438938.html) shows Dems are losing ground rapidly on this. Ah. (1) Scott Rassmussen (2) on the WSJ editorial page. :rolleyes: Harris polling shows [the majority of Americans back Obama on health care reform.](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hlTYMW3D6YD6cehWzTUWCJtIFe6g) ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/169 "2009-08-10T00:06:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ah. (1) Scott Rassmussen (2) on the WSJ editorial page. :rolleyes: > > Harris polling shows [the majority of Americans back Obama on health care reform.](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hlTYMW3D6YD6cehWzTUWCJtIFe6g) Obama doesn’t want public health care as an option, he wants it as a mandate for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/170 "2009-08-10T00:13:58Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Obama doesn’t want public health care as an option, he wants it as a mandate for everybody. Not everybody. Just you. He was planning to come to your next birthday party and jump out of a cake and yell “Surprise, Carol Stream! You have public health care! I MANDATE IT!” And then he was going to poink you over the head with a fairy wand and then you were going to have ruby slippers and a pony and a thief with a heart of gold was going to teach you to juggle. But you’ve ruined it now. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/171 "2009-08-10T00:15:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Not everybody. Just you. He was planning to come to your next birthday party and jump out of a cake and yell “Surprise, Carol Stream! You have public health care! I MANDATE IT!” And then he was going to poink you over the head with a fairy wand and then you were going to have ruby slippers and a pony and a thief with a heart of gold was going to teach you to juggle. > > But you’ve ruined it now. Hey, look, it’s tool time. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/172 "2009-08-10T00:18:45Z")
We should listen to the President. He’s wiser than we, and has surrounded himself with all sorts of advisors from all sorts of political persuasions. He listens. And then he decides. Do what he says. He is our greatest president of the modern era. (And yes, I do mean it, goddamit.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/173 "2009-08-10T00:19:46Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Hey, look, it’s tool time. With that attitude, you’ll never have a party. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/174 "2009-08-10T00:20:52Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > We should listen to the President. He’s wiser than we, and has surrounded himself with all sorts of advisors from all sorts of political persuasions. He listens. And then he decides. Do what he says. He is our greatest president of the modern era. (And yes, I do mean it, goddamit.) This is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/175 "2009-08-10T00:26:33Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This is absurd. Pray tell? Who among us is as wise as he? Does he not surround himself with the best and brightest from all policial viewpoints? Does he not listen before he decides? What have I said that is “absurd”. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/176 "2009-08-10T00:27:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > We should listen to the President. He’s wiser than we, and has surrounded himself with all sorts of advisors from all sorts of political persuasions. He listens. And then he decides. Do what he says. He is our greatest president of the modern era. (And yes, I do mean it, goddamit.) Such advisors he has. Rahm Emmanuel? Good Lord save us. “Do what he says”? Fortunately for the rest of us, that’s not how it works. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/177 "2009-08-10T00:28:55Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Pray tell? Who among us is as wise as he? Does he not surround himself with the best and brightest from all policial viewpoints? Does he not listen before he decides? What have I said that is “absurd”. You’re trying to create a religion. “Put aside your brains and follow him!” You know what’s the biggest sign someone is unwise? They get into politics. It doesn’t matter how smart or wise or informed he is. There’s stuff he doesn’t know. Now stop being so fucking creepy about Obama. He’s gonna take out a restraining order. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/178 "2009-08-10T00:33:11Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You’re trying to create a religion. “Put aside your brains and follow him!” That’s not what I mean, and you (should) know it. I’m saying we should USE our brains. Having done so, we will give him a chance to do what he thinks is best. There is nothing wrong with having a leader. I’m not saying let him get away with murder if he wanted to. I’m saying that he has the wisdom, the leadership, and the courage to get the job done if we would just get the hell out of his way and let him do it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/179 "2009-08-10T00:37:40Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s not what I mean, and you (should) know it. I’m saying we should USE our brains. Having done so, we will give him a chance to do what he thinks is best. There is nothing wrong with having a leader. I’m not saying let him get away with murder if he wanted to. I’m saying that he has the wisdom, the leadership, and the courage to get the job done if we would just get the hell out of his way and let him do it. So, we need to think, but then let him decide for us. We need to act, but then get out of his way so he can do what he wants. He’s just a dude. He’s a smart dude, and I have a lot of respect for him. But he’s still a person. No one is wise enough for what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665/180 "2009-08-10T00:37:43Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’m saying that he has the wisdom, the leadership, and the courage to get the job done if we would just get the hell out of his way and let him do it. Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-the-fascists-the-traitors-and-the-anti-ameircan-liars/505665.md?page=10)