# They are trying it again- Ten Commandments **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134 "2024-06-20T20:54:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/181 "2026-04-09T10:33:37Z")
I don’t think that’s on the teacher’s union (who mostly don’t want the headaches), it’s those parents who control the school board making the rules ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/182 "2026-04-09T11:50:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In that case, it might fly. Just like you can include the Ten C along with the Code of Hammurabi and other historical laws, including other literary stories is kinda legit- because like it or not, believe in it or not- the Bible is indeed important literature. Are the religious texts of any other religions included in the list? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/183 "2026-04-09T13:18:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Most separation of church and state lawsuits come from persecuted religious people, not secular people or atheists. > > State religion is only attractive to people who assume that it’s _their_ particular religion that will be forced on everyone. Yep - and it surprises me when I hear a Catholic advocate for prayer in public schools. I ask them if they know why there are/were so many Catholic and Jewish schools in NYC and so few Lutheran or Methodist ones. They never do. ( It’s because public schools in NYC were so heavily influenced by Protestants. There was a public school holiday when I was in high school which has had various names over the years, but the reason for the holiday was to celebrate the founding of a Protestant Sunday school association) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/184 "2026-04-09T15:02:58Z")
I could certainly be wrong, I’ve never been to Texas, but I’d be surprised to learn that there was any teachers union in Texas. Texas Dopers, what do you say? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/185 "2026-04-09T18:54:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Are the religious texts of any other religions included in the list? The Code of Hammurabi is a religious text with mentions of Marduk and Shamash. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/186 "2026-04-09T19:05:25Z")
Please remember that any “clever” ploys suggested will absolutely _not_ be met with any variation of “Golly gee! We never considered _that_ loophole, so there is nothing we can do!”. In the real world, assholes respond as assholes will. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/187 "2026-04-09T19:16:03Z")
Just to be clear and before we dig down any more well known ruts, I’ll point out that the OP as written was about display of the Ten Commandments in classrooms, the recent revival was (by the cite) about teaching passages from the Bible as part of English (Literature) studies, which, while not an _entirely_ different kettle of fish, is one with slightly better justification. NOT defending Texas, because I am perfectly capable of reading their intent, rather than their excuses, but in _better_ hands it makes sense, and (for our evil snarky stuff) I’d love said class to require a disclaimer that the Bible is a unverified work of fiction, and _cannot_ be treated as _literally true_. Because I want to see them teaching the Bible as _fiction_, and then coming home to their parents and saying as such. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/188 "2026-04-09T19:20:53Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > NOT defending Texas, because I am perfectly capable of reading their intent, rather than their excuses, but in _better_ hands it makes sense, and (for our evil snarky stuff) I’d love said class to require a disclaimer that the Bible is a unverified work of fiction, and _cannot_ be treated as _literally true_. The Bible is a work of Literature, some parts are actual history. It is not fiction, but some parts are Myth and other parts are legend- and the older the “book” the more likely it is Myth or legend. We dont call the Greek Myths “fiction”. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/189 "2026-04-09T19:35:24Z")
I created a new thread to discuss the sub-topic rather than hijacking this one: > [@When teaching Religion, Myth and Legend as Literature should it be labeled as Fiction?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-teaching-religion-myth-and-legend-as-literature-should-it-be-labeled-as-fiction/1029156): > > Continuing the discussion from [They are trying it again- Ten Commandments](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/188): Rather than Hijack the above thread, I wanted to reply to @DrDeth in a separate thread where we can argue a more general question than the specific. For context, in the above thread, Texas was attempting to require pieces of the Christian Bible to be taught as literature in public schools. I gave my (admittedly dark and snarky) opinion that IF it were to be allowed, I would want to require a disclaimer that it be speci… ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/190 "2026-04-10T19:28:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We dont call the Greek Myths “fiction”. Actually, the Greek Myths were religion. It’s useful to remember that this is stuff that was taken very seriously by the ancient Greeks – they weren’t simply cute stories they told. Although different people viewed them with differing degrees of belief and tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/191 "2026-04-10T19:44:42Z")
For that matter, people actually reading the Bible would also be a threat to Dominionists, because actually reading it would make clear just how much of what Dominionists claim isn’t actually Biblical. ---
**Author:** ![Nightaudit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightaudit/32/17181_2.png) [@Nightaudit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightaudit)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/192 "2026-04-10T23:13:39Z")
Well sort of a “union” due to Texas being a right to work state it has to be called an association…. [https://www.tcta.org/](https://www.tcta.org/) ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/193 "2026-04-11T14:03:15Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I could certainly be wrong, I’ve never been to Texas, but I’d be surprised to learn that there was any teachers union in Texas. > Texas Dopers, what do you say? Texan here. One of my kids is a teacher, and their school has both [AAUP](https://www.aaup.org/) and [AFT](https://www.aft.org/) members on staff. Texas law prohibits collective bargaining by public employees, so I doubt the unions have much clout. Kiddo is currently teaching Classics, and has gone through all syllabi and lesson plans to remove everything that might offend the zealots. Since these changes were directed with little notice, it leaves gaps in the course syllabus and shortens the course some. At present, they chose to fill these gaps with relevant material, while still following the requirements to avoid forbidden subjects. As well-educated atheists in the bible-belt, we have plenty of experience navigating around evangelists and fundamentalists. So this isn’t an entirely new problem, just a different version. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/194 "2026-04-11T14:42:08Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > We dont call the Greek Myths “fiction”. > > Actually, the Greek Myths were religion. > > It’s useful to remember that this is stuff that was taken very seriously by the ancient Greeks – they weren’t simply cute stories they told. Although different people viewed them with differing degrees of belief and tolerance. With no particular evidence, i believe that in every era there have been people who were deeply religious, and others who went along with the social requirements their religion imposed, but otherwise didn’t think about it much, and a few who thought the whole thing was hogwash. I think “religiosity” is like musicality, a fundamental trait of human beings that some people have a lot of, and some have almost none of. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/195 "2026-04-11T15:10:43Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Texas law prohibits collective bargaining by public employees, so I doubt the unions have much clout. Which is also unconstitutional, of course, given the freedom of association in the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/196 "2026-04-11T15:29:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For that matter, people actually reading the Bible would also be a threat to Dominionists, because actually reading it would make clear just how much of what Dominionists claim isn’t actually Biblical. For that matter, what would actually reading that book teach people about how they are to treat refugees and asylum seekers (versus how they’re treated in Trump’s America)? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/197 "2026-04-11T15:33:16Z")
I don’t follow. How does not allowing collective bargaining violate freedom of association ? They are allowed to join unions but public employees are not covered by the NLRA so the unions have no right to bargain under Federal law. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/203 "2026-04-16T18:19:55Z")
But there is one benefit to the 10 commandments in schools–the students can see for themselves how many commandments Fearless Leader has broken ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134/205 "2026-09-24T02:52:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That’s basically it. Not exactly a roadmap for building a modern legal system. Psst. What makes you think these fornographers _want_ a modern legal system? [Turns out people who are educated are aware of how wrong this inanity is.](https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/not-set-stone-teachers-defying-120048715.html) > [@](#): > > When history teacher Chris Dier sued [Louisiana](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/louisiana)two years ago for mandating that the Ten Commandments be displayed in classrooms, he said it was not about taking a stand against [Christianity](https://www.theguardian.com/world/christianity). > > “It’s a defense of many different types of values, including civil liberties and religious freedoms,” Dier said, who teaches at a [New Orleans](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/new-orleans) high school. “I spent over 16 years teaching students that the [constitution](https://www.theguardian.com/law/us-constitution-and-civil-liberties) protects everyone of every faith – students of no faith too.” > > While Dier’s lawsuit has stalled, posters of the sacred text have appeared in schools across the state. Dier said he would not hang up a copy even if one is dropped off at his door, and he is willing to accept the consequences. > > “I want people to know there are teachers out there who want to demonstrate that we can take a stand,” he said. “We don’t have to let schools become battlegrounds.” > > Louisiana is among four states (including Texas, Arkansas and Alabama) that have recently enacted laws requiring the Ten Commandments to be posted in all public school classrooms, from kindergarten to college. A host of other southern states, including West Virginia, Mississippi and South Carolina, are debating similar legislation. > > The laws, which raise thorny questions about the separation of church and state, are gaining renewed attention as the supreme court is expected to consider a number of challenges to them, including Dier’s, in the fall. Public school teachers caught in the crosshairs of the escalating culture war are fighting back, some taking the legal route and others quietly defying the law in their own classes. At least two teachers in Texas, theater teacher Gigi Cervantes and band director Johnnie Cotton, have quit in protest. > > “I believe very strongly that politics and religion have no place in the public schools,” Cotton said in a [Facebook post](https://www.facebook.com/johnnie.cotton.250673/posts/pfbid0GnwBrUdjRq4DjPrb8JTWd86oPh6cFmo33e8Wi7J4RNJicHCrAG8qr1AicGidxkGAl) announcing his resignation. “I spent my 42 years as a teacher and administrator making sure that my classroom/campus stayed neutral on both counts.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-are-trying-it-again-ten-commandments/1003134.md?page=9)