Your sources are pretty new, ill take a look.
The first is laughable.
The second doesnt state what the acceptable singular is.
It. The APA is a singular organization so “it hasn’t been that successful…”
Otherwise, I disagree with the majority of posters here. If you would use “they” when referring to a singular subject, prepare to get your knuckles rapped by a teacher, professor, or a professional organization to whom you submit to the writing. Not everyone subscribes to the latest internet grammar rules.
Way to not read the thread.
As has been pointed out repeatedly in the thread, the singular “they” is a long established usage, employed by Chaucer, Shakespeare, Byron, Austen, Dickens and others. If anybody is guilty of subscribing to “the latest internet grammar rules”, it’s the pedants who put logic before usage and experience and who solemnly decree that this is no longer acceptable.
Back in the 80s I wrote a rule book for the users of cars in our leasing scheme. We had both male and female drivers and that was the first time I remember coming up against the problem.
Something along these lines: “Any user that has a problem with their car…” I can’t actually remember why I didn’t write, “If you have a problem with your car…” but I am sure I had good reason.
I wrote it first using his/her but it just looked over pedantic. “Their” fitted much better.
Looking more deeply into the CML issue, I see we’re both right, if time is irrelevant. They did at one time, say that “they” was an acceptable singular gender neutral pronouns, but then they did cheater cheater pumpkin eater backsies.
[QUOTE=Topic Q&A List]
Q. I would swear that I saw a reference in your manual that approved of the use of “their” instead of a gender-biased singular pronoun. For example, “If the user has completed installing the program, they should put the CD-ROM back in the package,” instead of “If the user has completed installing the program, s/he should put the CD-ROM back in the package,” but on your Q&A, you dance around the answer to the question and suggest that you do NOT approve of the singular “their.” Can you tell us what is acceptable?
A. Yes, you saw it at 2.98 (note 9) in the fourteenth edition, but there was some regret at having written it, and we decided to abandon the idea for the fifteenth and sixteenth editions. Though some writers are comfortable with the occasional use of they as a singular pronoun, some are not, and it is better to do the necessary work to recast a sentence or, other options having been exhausted, use he or she. For a fuller discussion of this issue, see paragraph 5.223 in CMOS 16 and the entry for “he or she” under the “Glossary of Problematic Words and Phrases” at paragraph 5.220.
[/QUOTE]
So instead, I’ll turn to Miriam-Websterin my Appeal to Authority, definition b:
And then I’ll refer us all back to the actual question in the OP:
Americans speaking natural speech as native speakers of English do not, by a large, object to this usage. Google is my cite - not googling style manuals of professional and formal writing, but googling actual people writing informally as they normally speak.
The two largest American formal writing style guides do still object to this usage in *formal *writing.
Given the history of the usage, it is fairly clear that it is the formal writing style guides that are in the wrong, and their own wavering on the issue shows signs of weakness which will inevitably be exploited until their acceptance is inevitable. But probably not by next Tuesday.
As an M.A. in ESL, you should know better than “prof told me so.” Sorry, I only have a B.A. in English, so I guess you win. :rolleyes:
Provide with me an actual citation, since you are making the claim, that the APA style guide (which is used for academic publications in the social sciences) encouraged the singular use of “they” as a gender-neutral pronoun. My profs in college in my psychology classes required using APA and did not accept the gender neutral they, and I do not recall the stylebook at the time encouraging its use. We generally tried to recast the sentence in the plural, if possible. I cannot find an actual copy of the APA publication manual, but I can find several written sources from academic institutions that reference the manual and its position. That’s a little bit better than “prof told me so.”
But, yes, the actual source would be best. But you’re the one making the claim, and it doesn’t jibe with my memory of writing papers with APA style, nor does any academic source currently seem to indicate that APA encourages it.
(Note: I am not against the use of singular they. I am all for it. But I’m not sure why the APA is even figuring into this discussion, as it’s a bit of a niche style/usage guide for English.)
OK, I managed to track down a copy of the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 6th edition, and in section 3.12, (“Reducing Bias by Topic: 3.12 Gender”) it lists the following alternatives for the generic he:
- rephrasing
- recasting the sentence in the plural (example is ‘A therapist who is too much like his client can lose his objectivity’ to ‘Therapists who are too much like their clients can lose their objectivity.’)
- replacing the pronoun with an article (the example they give is “from ‘A reseracher must apply for his grant by September 1’ to 'A researcher must apply for the grant by September 1”).
- dropping the pronoun
Furthermore: “Replacing he with he or she should be done sparingly because the repetition can become tiresome. Combination forms such as he/she or (s)he are awkward and distracting. Alternating between he and she may also be distracting and is not ideal; doing so implies that he or she can in fact be generic, which is not the case.”
Nowhere, that I could find, is it allowing for use of the singular they.
Oh, but wait. Here comes Section 3.20 (“Pronouns.”)
And there you go. APA does not like the singular they in gender neutral constructions, according to the 6th edition of the publication manual.
I’m not Superhal, but I just got done with my masters in library science, using APA 6th ed for the last year or so, and “they” as gender-neutral singular was NOT an option.
Oh, grr, ninjaed by **puly **while I was Googling for a cite. Well done, pulykamell.
Yes, that was my point. Singular “they” is not a modern barbarism that was recently inserted into the language as a modern political correctness thing. It’s been part of the language for centuries and has been used by famous writers who are themselves upheld as standards.
According to a bunch of drunk guys I found outside a bar last weekend, it’s not acceptable to not use the word “fuck” at least once per minute.
I’m not entirely sure what point you’re making here. I agree that the singular they is a perfectly cromulent English construction, as I’ve noted. We were discussing a side point dealing with APA style, and what factually that particular style guide considers appropriate, because there was a post made suggesting that it was the APA that tried to introduce the gender-neutral singular they into mainstream acceptance in formal written English. This point appears not to be true on several levels. One, the APA doesn’t encourage the singular, gender-neutral they in any reference I could find, including their own most current stylebook and, two, the gender-neutral they has a long history in the English language that well predates the APA and issues of gender-neutrality.
I believe he is attempting to show the absurdity of superhal’s argument by using similar logic to demonstrate a clearly erroneous truth. The validity of his point, I leave to the reader’s discretion.
I was wondering if that was what he was going for. In fact, my original response was “well, if they had a doctorate from ‘one of the top three programs in the world at the time’, then I guess that’s good enough for me.” 
But then I second guessed that more sarcastic reading.
But those pendants have learned from early childhood that you don’t use “they” in a singular context and you don’t end a sentence with a prepositions. Many of those pendants are teachers, professors, and others who will be judging you on the content of your writing.
Right or wrong, they will chalk these things up as ignorance on the writers part. Good luck telling your professor that you didn’t deserve the mark down because Chaucer did the same thing. It doesn’t matter if it was done that way 300 to 1000 years ago; what matter is what was done 40 to 50 years ago when modern rules were written.
Saying something has historical roots because Shakespeare did it is similar to arguing that acceptance of homosexuality is not recent because the Greeks did it in ancient Athens. That doesn’t change the fact that in our lifetimes, the use of “they” as a singular pronoun (like homosexuality) is a change that many people haven’t accepted.
The two are not even remotely similar. The use of the singular they in something written by Shakespeare and something written now are equivalent in form and function. The same cannot be said about homosexuality in Ancient Greece.
If a professor or boss tells you not to use the singular they, that’s their prerogative just as it’s their choice whether you use color or colour or if you should use MLA or Chicago for citations.
How to write good:
Don’t use no double negatives.
Remember to never split an infinitive.
A preposition is not a thing that a sentence should end with.
Avoid cliches like the plague.
The passive voice should not be used.
If a mixed metaphor shoots up, it should be derailed.
Writing carefully, dangling participles must be avoided.
If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is.
The adverb always follows the verb.
One should never generalize.
Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
And don’t start a sentence with a conjunction.
The point is that the APA does not represent the last word in English usage. In the end it’s just someone’s opinion, and in this case, an opinion that is not well supported by historical usage.
You’re preaching to the choir here. Yes, I agree with all of that. But, as I said above, APA usage is a side point we were discussing with an unsubstantiated claim being made in this thread that I was addressing. (And it’s kind of a niche style guide for academic writing in the the social sciences, anyway.)
I think what you meant to say was “. . . in our lifetimes, the ban on the use of “they” as a singular pronound is a change that many people haven’t accepted.”