Whether we could do something and whether it’s a good idea to do something are always two separate questions. We probably wouldn’t think that building a huge pyramid to use as a tomb was a good use of resources and real estate now, either. That’s not the same as not being able to build a replica of the pyramids.
We generally don’t build big defensive walls out of stamped earth and stone to keep out invaders. That isn’t because we couldn’t build a replica of the Great Wall of China, but because we’ve found more efficient (if less picturesque) ways to accomplish the same goal.
I had thought Pendray and Verhoeven had pretty well cracked the Damascus thing a few years back with the discovery that some of the impurities were more important than had previously been thought.
Given the present state of metallurgy and the knives that people can make today, I always considered Damascus to be a kind of non-issue, like flint knapping or the like. It might be interesting to know, but is no longer useful or practical. I’ve never been able to swallow some of the legends about Damascus and I’ve seen modern steel do some amazing things.
I concur that the emotions are in the builders and not the building, but there are emotions in the observer to account for as well. If the observer is aware that they are looking at a duplicate, they will very likely not have the same emotions elicited in them as when looking upon the original. They might be fooled into thinking that something is an original but in most cases (i.e. Las Vegas) they will know darn well they are gazing upon copies.
Sellers of counterfeit collectibles take advantage of this subjective emotion in potential buyers, hoping the victim will be emotionally overcome and swayed into setting aside some of their objective analytical skills and accepting the copy as an original.
When I look at an original work of art or of historical significance, I am able to connect with it on an emotional level in a way that I cannot do with something that I know to be a copy or duplicate, no matter how authentic-looking it may be.
So I can pay 20,000 modern laborers to build a new pyramid, but when all is said and done, I don’t have the tomb of a Pharaoh, only a pile of stones that looks like one.
I would just like to take a moment to express my fervent wish that this user name/post combo is truly the result of serendipity, and not an incredibly subtle and clever whooosh.
I would like to believe that such things can just…happen.
So once the new pyramid is completed I just scuff the corners and half bury it, and as long as I can convince you that it was built to honour a Pharaoh (rather than as an extravagant vanity geek project) it will elicit the same emotions - problem solved.
Well, that theory falls apart because there is nothing to replicate. It was never built for a start and now the concept of a Black Taj Mahal is regarded as a myth. (Except in this thread).
Not to hijack this thread, but a few weeks ago I was thinking along similar lines of what we had but can’t have now (for various reasons).
I was thinking of the Concorde and supersonic passenger travel. We could achieve it again but it is unlikely in my lifetime I think. Not because we can’t- because it is not viable.
There is actually a progression of pyramids that show how the technology developed over “only” 150 years. The Bent Pyramids, for example, was allegedly changed from a steep to a less steep angle half-way through when the builders realised the previous one was too steep and cracking/collapsing on them.
Long term construction was not uncommon in the early days. Building the great pyramid in 20 or 30 years was normal but fast. Many of the cathedrals of europe were 100 to 200 year pojects. Glastonbury is a good example, you can see in one wall of the ruin how the style changes from roman round arches to pointed gothic ones from one end to the other - in response to changes in style over the century of construction.
Long-term construction was simply a response to lack of funds. When you have limited funds, you can only cut so many blocks of stone a year, and the mortar to set them, etc. Even if you are emperor of China with all the resources of millions of people, building a few thousand miles of fortification can take a long time.
Projects today are designed that the end is in sight, rarely more than 10 years off. I suppose it takes that great long term view that includes the mindset and religion to appreciate and want to build something that will not be ready in your lifetime.
Note that the existing Taj Mahal was copied recently in Bangladesh, for about $56 million (or maybe $2 million; the Wikipedia article contradicts itself). I haven’t seen it, so I have no idea how exact the copy is. But you can certainly buy marble pieces in Agra and elsewhere in India that have the same sort of inlay work that’s in much of the decoration of the Taj Mahal, so the skills are still practiced.
Nope. We can build a pyramid if we want one. We built one in Las Vegas that opened in 1993. It took eighteen months. We didn’t use the same techniques or materials that the Egyptians did, but why would we? We have other techniques and materials at our disposal, plus, we were never intending to use it for the same purposes the ancient Egyptians used their pyramids for. They used theirs for tombs, ours is used for a hotel and casino.
It’s so funny that you used that example. I have often thought that this: Photo of the Bilbao looks a lot like a metallicized Bedrock Hotel. Of course I can’t find the shot with the night club and awning that matches, but you catch my drift.
What does it mean to have an exact copy? Anything involving artistry and craftsmanship is going to be unique, in one sense. Take the Mona Lisa. You could get someone to make an exact duplicate, to the best of their ability, down to the brush strokes, using period materials, but it wouldn’t *be *the Mona Lisa. But engineering wise, if one wished to replicate a huge stone structure, we could easily use similar materials and achieve similar results, using modern techniques. Probably faster than the originals were built.
If you propose building exact copies (to the best of our abilities - does that mean identical stones in identical layouts, which would be hard with some of them Incan stones, for example; or just stonework of equivalent nature?) using period techniques, then we might run into places where we needed to practice a bit, to develop techniques that are lost, or come up with sufficient alternatives.
Down to the micrometer, probably not, but I feel confident we could build a replica of the Taj Mahal out of black granite that would be the same size, shape, and filled with sufficiently skilled detail work.
Is that a lack of ability, or desire? Or recordkeeping? Knowing exactly what to put in it artistically is not the same as not being able to build a room with intricate artistry in amber.
Modern designed buildings have modern materials and building methods to work with, for modern sensibilities and modern needs. We have concrete and steel. We don’t need flying butresses to hold the stonework together, that is what rebar is for. Doesn’t mean we couldn’t redesign using stonework. Though we might need some time to study, perhaps some practice to refine our skills.
That’s not an engineering challenge, that’s a recordkeeping problem. Much of Mount Rushmore is defined by the geometry of the hill it is carved into. First you would have to selet an appropriate mountain and shape it to the right contours.
I submit that if we were to redo history, with the Mercury project just done and where we were technologically, if we threw the same or more resources at it, we could be successful. But yes, 10 years was an audacious goal and it was not a given we could get there.
Are we trying to build a pyramid, or something made of the same materials to replicate the originals? Vegas was only intended to remind us of the original, not replicate it.
I read this state of affairs entirely differently. Clearly, Germany should not remain “flattened.” But that state, resulting from the largest, etc, etc. war in mankind, is “the original” of supreme historical moment. I submit that that preservation is worth a few Mozart manuscripts or German masterpieces.
I think there is nothing we could not replicate. However, there are constraints:
Geography - where do you replicate Mt. Rushmore?
Materials - where do you get sufficient old timber to replicate some ancient house with massive beams?
Budget - Yeah, we could rebuild the Great Wall of China, but the cost would be colossal
Knowledge - Some old forgotten church is vaporized. Were all the stained glass and carvings properly documented? Do we know everything that was inside?
But why would we do it? Everybody would know it’s not the original Great Wall of China. It wouldn’t be of interest to historians or archaeologists, since it’s not the original. If it’s just for tourists, why not build something vaguely similar in a place where tourists are likely to be? (like, maybe, Las Vegas) Most tourists are not going to care how it was built or what it’s made of, so why go to great trouble and expense to use the same techniques and materials that the original did?
