# They caught the sniper! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 24, 2002, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676 "2002-10-24T13:22:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/61 "2002-10-25T11:26:07Z")
I think thats how they have been described by their neighbours, but it hasn’t been said exactly how they are related. Does anyone know Why? Did they do it just for the money? Have the notes and communication with the police been released? ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/62 "2002-10-25T12:50:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Max Harvey_ > Driving around in Maryland with any sniper rifle in the trunk, much less one that matches the ballistics? Smells mighty fishy… Why is this fishy? A sniper who is targeting people in the VA/DC/MD area is (a) going to have a rifle, and (b) be in the VA/DC/MD area. Why do we need to add conspiracies to this? Shooters have guns. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/63 "2002-10-25T12:56:58Z")
Stump question: If I’m sighting in a weapon with a telescopic sight for a couple of hundred yards, why would I shoot at a stump in my back yard? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/64 "2002-10-25T12:58:12Z")
This wasn’t a genius working alone. This wasn’t a foreign terrorist network. THIS WAS TWO DIPSTICKS LIVING IN A USED VAN! Why were these people so hard to catch? Are our public officials so dull-witted? 😕 :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/65 "2002-10-25T13:02:00Z")
I think it’s great that they were able to nab these guys…I also am pretty happy about the way they conducted the investigation…not leaking vital info to the media all the time…probably made catching the guys a lot easier. I’m also a bit shocked that they are so enamored by the expert M-16 qualification. I don’t exactly shoot all that often (at most, every 6 months), and I qualify expert. (38-40 last time). 20% of all military personnel qualify expert. Also, the shots that the guy was making, with a scope, are easy shots. Anyone here could be trained to take those shots, with that accuracy, in about 2 hours. Anyway, thank God they weren’t listening to the radio when the police put out the car info. Now we just have to pray that there aren’t any copycat murders. Jman ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/66 "2002-10-25T13:07:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\* > > THIS WAS TWO DIPSTICKS LIVING IN A USED VAN! > > \*\* I thought it was a Chevrolet Caprice. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/67 "2002-10-25T13:10:35Z")
In a less sarcastic reply, some serial killers evaded capture by being bums. THe guy with the bad eye…Wayne something…was a homeless guy. Maybe they leave less evidence to track them with. No credit cards, bus tickets, stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/68 "2002-10-25T13:13:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*THIS WAS TWO DIPSTICKS LIVING IN A USED VAN! \*\* Was it down by the river? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/69 "2002-10-25T13:15:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*In a less sarcastic reply, some serial killers evaded capture by being bums. THe guy with the bad eye…Wayne something…was a homeless guy. Maybe they leave less evidence to track them with. No credit cards, bus tickets, stuff like that. \*\* Plus, no fixed address, and always being on the move. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/70 "2002-10-25T14:44:20Z")
It goes to show you how amazingly dependent any sort of complex society is on people behaving themsleves. These two cunning, but not particularly sophisticated guys with a beat up older car and a rifle, had millions of people actively fearing for their lives for almost 3 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/71 "2002-10-25T15:02:12Z")
Henry Lee Lucas. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/72 "2002-10-25T15:10:58Z")
Regarding motivation, When the name Williams/Muhammed first broke on King 5 News in Seattle/Tacoma, it was reported that Williams had an ex wife living in Maryland, in the sniping zone. my first reaction was that all this killing was a smokescreen to hide the real motivation for the intended killing of his ex wife. However, I have not heard any reference to the wife angle in subsequent reports. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/73 "2002-10-25T15:24:33Z")
Yeah, I remember reading that about his ex, too. Interesting we haven’t yet heard more about it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/74 "2002-10-25T15:39:33Z")
Thanks, Lieu. BTW Lucas had a companion, too. I think he offed her. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/75 "2002-10-25T15:50:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*This wasn’t a genius working alone. > > This wasn’t a foreign terrorist network. > > THIS WAS TWO DIPSTICKS LIVING IN A USED VAN! \*\* …DOWN BY THE RIVER! (shit, upon preview I see that Ginger beat me to this. Damn you, Ginger!! ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/76 "2002-10-25T15:53:16Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by carnivorousplant_ > If I’m sighting in a weapon with a telescopic sight for a couple of hundred yards, why would I shoot at a stump in my back yard? According to an article in the _Washington Post_ Muhammed told his roommate he was going to the range to “zero” his gun. The stump shooting doesn’t seem to be about sighting the gun. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/77 "2002-10-25T16:25:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Stump question: > > If I’m sighting in a weapon with a telescopic sight for a couple of hundred yards, why would I shoot at a stump in my back yard? \*\* It’s a bit complex to explain but the M-16/AR-15 design has a very high sight line, that is to say the line of sight from the shooters eye over the open sights or through a scope are a few inches above the barrel where on a typical bolt action rifle they are very close to the barrel centerline. When the sights on an M16 are zeroed at 300 meters the bullet makes an arching trajectory that crosses the line of sight upward at a relatively close distance then crosses downward at the “zero” distance. The standard rear sight on the M16-A2 has a setting so zero can be set at the close distance when a 300 yard shooting range is not available. There was a paragraph about this on MSNBC that sounded like someone not familiar with the processes took notes from someone that explained it poorly. It didn’t make any sense and included nonsense phrases like “triangulating the crosshairs.” ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/78 "2002-10-25T17:21:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*This wasn’t a genius working alone. > > This wasn’t a foreign terrorist network. > > THIS WAS TWO DIPSTICKS LIVING IN A USED VAN! > > Why were these people so hard to catch? > > Are our public officials so dull-witted? 😕 :mad: \*\* They were hard to catch, because they didn’t leave any clues until they opened their big traps, and they arranged it so that the sniper couldn’t be seen. They modified their car so that it had a gun port. You could do the same with any van, or truck with a camper; it probably wouldn’t be that hard to do with a beater car and not be weird looking. How many vans, trucks and beater cars are there in that area. They always shot from a busy intersection, and the car was facing away from the target. There were probably dozens of cars at each site; there was only one gunshot. What witness is going to be able to accurately identify THE car that one gunshot came out of? There were no clues left. Well, except for the calls that they made to, who was it? The FBI? I wonder how many crackpot calls _they_ get a day? So just how do you narrow down your list of suspects in a metropolitan area with several million people without clues? Frankly, it wouldn’t be hard at all to do this for a long time without getting caught. All you have to do is not be terribly predictable, not have a very active social life, and not tell anyone what you were doing. It’s the last part that is hard for people to do, fortunately. How many people could resist taking their 15 minutes of fame? ---
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/79 "2002-10-25T17:21:26Z")
Burn in hell, assbags. Disclaimer: That’s me talking to the snipers, not to anybody here. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676/80 "2002-10-25T17:24:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > \*\*I want to know how he hooked up with this kid. “Father and son”? “Stepfather and stepson”? I can’t find anything that explains how they met and why they called themselves that. \*\* A report I read this morning indicated that they are not actually related. Said that they were assumed to be related and that Muhammed often introduced Malvo(sp?) as his stepson. Went on to say that Malvo was the son of a friend of Muhammed’s, that they met at a homeless shelter, and that the boy seemed to really worship him, according to some witnesses from a coffeeshop where they used to hang out and play chess. The relationship was also described as “svengali” like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-caught-the-sniper/133676.md?page=5)