# They gave him a GUN? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105 "2003-08-28T00:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/61 "2003-08-28T23:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > And if I were a cop, and someone I just asked a question to called me an asshole, I’d do a bit more than just keep staring. Oh yeah? What, exactly, would you do? Rough her up? Question and intimidate her further? > [@](#): > > He should’ve. We pay cops to be suspicious and semi-paranoid so that we, the average Joe, don’t have to be I’m with mhendo. The LAST thing I “pay” a cop to be is paranoid and suspicious. I don’t pay cops so I can worry everytime I’m around one that something I do will be taken wrong and I will become the object of their paranoia. I also don’t pay them to cling to the idea that we are guilty until proven innocent, and that idea seems to be spreading. Sam, who is very glad the Spoofer decided not to be a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/62 "2003-08-28T23:12:12Z")
I have to disagree with you too, **SPOOFE**. I have long hair, and often wear a Santa Cruz sweatshirt. (4/20 is a day that requires special plans at UCSC.) It appears that in this cop’s eyes, I have two strikes against me right there. If he chooses to question me, is that fair? Right? Justified? Encouraged? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/63 "2003-08-28T23:21:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > To ask another way: Suppose the cop had spotted a girl that was totally freaking out on crack and LSD and mescaline and Britney Spears… standing in the corner, bloodshot eyes, screwy sinuses, minding her own business (who DOESN’T when a cop’s around?). If that cop had thought “Oh, she just has allergies from being in a dusty warehouse all day,” and then she goes on to jump from the tracks or pull a gun and start firing, you’d all be on his ass for not doing his duty and checking her out to see if she were all right. > > Like I said… double standard. I said in my next post (and admitted to being a doofus for not including it in the previous one) that it’s **perfectly fine** for cops to talk to you and ask you questions if they think something might be up. I don’t see how in the hell starting off a conversation with a question about whether she’d been smoking pot would help. What did he expect her to say, “Yes?” (Can they even bust you **just** for having pot in your system? What if she’d been totally clean otherwise - no pot, no paraphenalia - and just somewhat high?) I think he could have gotten the same results, and maybe more politely on her part, by just asking what was wrong, and taking the questioning from there, angling towards drug questions if it seemed necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/64 "2003-08-28T23:41:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buttonjockey308 \* > **As an x-DoD cop (928th TAG/AW, ORD-IAP) meant to deal with civilians on military bases, (whilst the SP’s dealt with Military personnel), we had a “working relationship” with our local civilian authorities as well, never once did that relationship include pulling traffic stops, working road blocks, or writing traffic citations.** That must depend on the location. DoD police around here do indeed pull over civilians and not just on the Pentagon reservation. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/65 "2003-08-28T23:51:41Z")
Mhendo… > [@](#): > > Well, maybe you think that’s what we pay cops for. I was under the impression we paid them to enforce the law and keep the peace. If cops keep behaving like that, then we, “the average Joe,” will end up becoming “suspicious and semi-paranoid” all the time. So how does a cop enforce the law and keep the peace if he doesn’t keep his eyes open and make sure he knows what’s going on around him? How does he enforce the law and keep the peace if he instantly accepts every semi-plausible story and excuse that’s handed to him? > [@](#): > > No doubt your next argument will be the tired old saw “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve got nothing to worry about.” Still doesn’t excuse asshole behaviour, in my opinion. Nor does it justify asking citizens to waive their rights, which in this case included not answering questions. Keep your ignorant words out of my mouth, buttfuck. > [@](#): > > As i and others have pointed out, Terry v. Ohio holds that the cop was well within his rights to ask questions. But ninjachick was also well within her rights to completely ignore him. I’ll tell you what, champ, if you can find out where I said that she was in the wrong for ignoring him, I’ll eat my underpants, film it, and post the video clip online for the whole world to see. I’m pointing out that Ninjachick is making a mountain out of a molehill. This is evident in the part where I said… that she’s making a mountain out of a molehill. Gawd… > [@](#): > > Oh yeah? What, exactly, would you do? Rough her up? Question and intimidate her further? Actually, you nailed it right on the head, Gawd, I WOULD question her even further… although I wonder what delusional bullshit world you live in where “questioning” and “intimidating” are synonyms. > [@](#): > > I’m with mhendo. The LAST thing I “pay” a cop to be is paranoid and suspicious. Then what DO you pay a cop for? To be gullible and oblivious? Troy… > [@](#): > > It appears that in this cop’s eyes, I have two strikes against me right there. So you’re a telepath, now? Why don’t you tell me what that cop’s stance on the environment is, too? ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/66 "2003-08-29T00:18:23Z")
Jesus Spoofe- have you really never come up against an intimidator cop? I’m about the biggest cop defender there is, and I know for a fact that there are cops that act like complete assholes to the very people they’re paid to protect, up to and including humiliating someone in public, illegal searches, and other fun stuff. Hell, I drove for 31 years before ever getting a ticket and the cop that pulled me over treated me like I’d just hit and run a schoolyard full of blind kids and crippled puppies. No one deserves to be treated like a crimminal for no good reason, Spoofe. And I daresay, the crimminals should be treated with respect, too. Their job is to investigate crime, not harass people. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/67 "2003-08-29T00:21:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > **So how does a cop enforce the law and keep the peace if he doesn’t keep his eyes open and make sure he knows what’s going on around him? How does he enforce the law and keep the peace if he instantly accepts every semi-plausible story and excuse that’s handed to him?** Now you can keep your words out of my mouth. I never said cops shouldn’t keep their eyes open, or that they should accept every story. But being vigilant and inquiring is not the same as being “suspicious and semi-paranoid.” > [@](#): > > **Keep your ignorant words out of my mouth, buttfuck.** OK. The presence of your foot in there doesn’t leave any room, anyway. > [@](#): > > \*\*I’ll tell you what, champ, if you can find out where I said that she was in the wrong for ignoring him, I’ll eat my underpants, film it, and post the video clip online for the whole world to see. > > I’m pointing out that Ninjachick is making a mountain out of a molehill. This is evident in the part where I said… that she’s making a mountain out of a molehill.\*\* I never said you said that. I was simply pointing out what the law is. Also, making mountains out of molehills is a purely subjective judgment. You seem content to allow cops to be assholes as long as they don’t break the law. I prefer to hold our law enforement officers to a somewhat higher standard of behaviour, and it seems that others on this thread do too. > [@](#): > > **Gawd… > Actually, you nailed it right on the head, Gawd, I WOULD question her even further… although I wonder what delusional bullshit world you live in where “questioning” and “intimidating” are synonyms.** Probably the same one as someone who equates “suspicious and semi-paranoid” with vigilance and inquiry. mhendo, who, like **GaWd** is glad that **SPOOFE** isn’t a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/68 "2003-08-29T00:56:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*So you’re a telepath, now? Why don’t you tell me what that cop’s stance on the environment is, too? \*\* Yes, **SPOOFE** , I’m a telepath. I am able to read minds. From far away. Of people I don’t know, in professions I’m not in. Uncanny, isn’t it? (Come on, **SPOOFE** , you’re better than that.) If I get questioned for having red eyes, why wouldn’t I get questioned for having long hair? carrying a large duffel bag? wearing a Bob Marley shirt? wearing something made of hemp? wearing a tye-dyed shirt? sweating? eating munchies? shivering? having a bottle of NyQuil? having spilled ketchup on my clothing? having a closed bottle of liquor? having a long fingernail? carrying a baseball bat? having a shaved head? reading a book with “Dope” in the title? Do you think it’s acceptable to question someone for all of the above? Every one of those could mean something illegal was happening/about to happen, after all. Yes, police must be aware and vigilant, but there is a line that need not be crossed in a mundane situation on the train. This particular cop did so. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/69 "2003-08-29T03:22:52Z")
Jeff… Northern VA is WAY different…Still, DoD officers are \* sworn civilian\* (read: not active duty military) police officers. The Jurisdictional issues there likely stem from the fact that VA is like the back door of the white house, and the hills of VA are lousy with spooks, spies, soldiers and other assorted gov’t functionaries. On the whole though, it’s more the exception than the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wonko_The_Sane)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/70 "2003-08-29T04:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > \*\* > What’s the fucking difference between what this officer asked you and say, this officer pulling over someone because they’re swerving all over the road, or stumbling down a sidewalk? Hmmm? > \*\* Because having allergies while standing in a traincar doesn’t get anyone killed. The pollen counts in NJ have been very high this week. Over 10 pollenny units according to [weather.com](http://weather.com) anyway. OTOH, if the cop was just being paranoid and suspicious, perhaps he was looking to score some confiscated pot. Did he have Dorito or Chee-To crumbs on his shirt? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/71 "2003-08-29T04:02:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, you nailed it right on the head, Gawd, I WOULD question her even further… although I wonder what delusional bullshit world you live in where “questioning” and “intimidating” are synonyms. It seems that you’re the one living in a delusional world, Spoofey. I’d certainly consider a cop staring a 17 year old girl down after being told to fuck off “intimidating”. Asking a citizen point-blank if she’s been smoking pot is over the top. Some decorum, decency and respect is in order. If this is the way you want your police force run, I’m glad we don’t live anywhere near each other. This crap happens WAY too fucking much around here, and if SPOOFE the Police Chief ran the local police organizations, it’d be much worse for all of the law-abiding citizens everywhere. You’re EXACTLY the type of person who should NEVER consider a job in law enforcement. And unfortunately, too many of your type DO become law enforcement officers. Sam ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/72 "2003-08-29T04:03:09Z")
You called him an asshole and you are doing the rant? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/73 "2003-08-29T04:19:49Z")
buttonjockey: The DPS officers very well may be sworn law enforcement officers; however, they are not sworn state police officers. Rather, they are sworn federal police officers. They just do not have lawful jurisdiction over civilians that you apparently imagine they do. If I were in my old apartment at 1600 South Joyce Street in Arlington and there was a search warrant issued by a Virginia, as opposed to federal, judge to search my apartment for an item that credible information intimidated I stole from the restaurant on South 23rd Street, the DPS would have exactly zero authority to execute that warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/74 "2003-08-29T04:33:16Z")
Komrade Ashcroft would be proud. If I am minding my own buisness on a fucking bus and a cop outta the blue asked me if I had been smoking, I would tell him to fuck off in a heartbeat. The example given in the OP is purely an asshole cop with a baditude for whatever reason, just wanting to fuck with somebody because he has the power. I don’t understand how some of you can defend the cop. I could invoke Godwin, but I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/75 "2003-08-29T11:19:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buttonjockey308 \* > \*_Northern VA is WAY different…Still, DoD officers are \* sworn civilian_ (read: not active duty military) police officers. The Jurisdictional issues there likely stem from the fact that VA is like the back door of the white house, and the hills of VA are lousy with spooks, spies, soldiers and other assorted gov’t functionaries. On the whole though, it’s more the exception than the rule. \*\* That was my point. Until **Monty** hears back from the local PD around Shaw AFB, who’s to say that isn’t a special case too? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/76 "2003-08-29T11:24:48Z")
In case anyone’s wondering, my info regarding DoD police came from an article that was published in the _Post_ some years ago. Anyone breaking a traffic law around here can expect to be stopped by any one of four departemnts: local, state, Metro, or DoD. Depending on where the infraction ocurred. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/77 "2003-08-29T11:30:18Z")
Just to focus a little bit here on the real problem, Spoofe, look at this line again > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zette \* > **No one deserves to be treated like a crimminal for no good reason** It may very well be legal for a cop to do what he did, but it doesn’t make it right. It seems that legally, a cop can pull over every single car on the road and stop every single pedestrian and ask them questions. They shouldn’t. Their job is to protect us, and they should treat us with respect. His job is to make the train ride safe for people like NinjaChick, not uncomfortable. A lot of times (not just in law enforcement, but all business) people miss the forest for the trees. In business, people focus on Revenue, Market Penetration, Utilization and other things and forget about _making money_ which should be your overriding goal. Cops start thinking about making busts and writing tickets instead of preventing crime. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/78 "2003-08-29T12:25:10Z")
The cop would have had a better chance at satisfying his questions had he conversed in a responsibe manner, but instead he chose to go on a power trip through accusation and intimidation. He was called on it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/79 "2003-08-29T12:41:10Z")
SPOOFE, by your reasoning, the girl should have maced the fellow and had him arrested. A male adult accosted a female child in a confined area by oggling, by insinuating drug use, and by dressing up in a uniform. That is mighty suspicious behavior, and on its face indicates that the fellow is a very sick and dangerous predator. But of course the above is silly, for he was just a cop on a power trip. Just as the girl was just a person with the snuffles. It all comes down to being reasonable and keeping things in perspective, which the cop failed to do, and which you have failed to do by not recognizing that in this particular instance the legal right to behave as the cop behaved did not equate with acting in a professionally responsible manner. His behavior was legal, but reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/80 "2003-08-29T13:32:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*The cop would have had a better chance at satisfying his questions had he conversed in a responsibe manner, but instead he chose to go on a power trip through accusation and intimidation. > > He was called on it. \*\* The only problem with your observation, **Muffin** , is that being an asshole probably works for the cop on many occasions, because people forget that they have the right not to respond, and give in to his belligerent questions. The cop may not discover any illegal activity or make an arrest, but he will often succeed in intimidating the person, which is all an asshole like that really wants anyway. The problem with cops like this is that they don’t “go on” power trips; they are already on power trips every single minute that they are on the job. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by GaWD_ > **You’re EXACTLY the type of person who should NEVER consider a job in law enforcement. And unfortunately, too many of your type DO become law enforcement officers.** Interestingly, the author of my little book _You and the Police_, despite his overall libertarian inclinations, believes that all citizens should be drafted to serve a period as “peace officers,” a “citizen-police force which rotates back into ‘civilian’ life.” His reason for this is that “anybody who _wants_ to be a cop shouldn’t be _allowed_ on the force.” I don’t think i’d go quite that far, but he certainly has a point that many of the people who end up being cops are precisely the people who should not be in positions of power and authority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105.md?page=5)