# They gave him a GUN? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105 "2003-08-28T00:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/81 "2003-08-29T13:46:49Z")
mhendo, you at least got my point- THere are MANY police officers who have the character of Spoofe and the cop on the train. These people should be doing something else other than policing. Of the many incidents I had with the police in my youth, on reflection I realized that all of the police I had problems with also had these character traits which make being a police officer totally incompatible to them. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/82 "2003-08-29T15:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by county \* > \*\*You called him an asshole and you are doing the rant? \*\* Not the best course of action on her part. However, it was appropriate, and she has the all-important benefit of being correct. Since she got away with it, good for her, I say. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/83 "2003-08-29T15:29:25Z")
Just FTR, does anyone know if a cop could have arrested **ninjachick** for calling him an asshole? I mean, i know that he could easily have found some other pretence to arrest her, but what i’m wondering is whether he would actually be able to write on the charge sheet that she had been arrest for simply calling him an asshole? Is abusing someone verbally, even a cop, a First Amendment right? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/84 "2003-08-29T15:44:46Z")
Oh, and on the subject of my last post, i thought some people might like to take a look at this (warning: direct link to .avi video file): [Click here](http://www.punchbaby.com/media/gitfakt/clips/ouch/FingerPig.avi). For those who don’t want to watch the video:[spoiler]It is a home video taken by a couple of young guys. One operates the video camera from a car while his friend walks up to a cop and, for no reason, gives the cop the finger and tells him to fuck off. Well, the cop pulls out his baton and starts going postal on the guy, beating the crap out of him. Never have i been more torn between my hatred of police brutality and my love of seeing an asshole get what’s coming to him. :D[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/85 "2003-08-29T16:28:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Just FTR, does anyone know if a cop could have arrested ninjachick for calling him an asshole? None at all. You are allowed to say anything you want to whomever you want. The police can’t really arrest or cite you for being a dick to them, verbally, but they can certainly scrutinize you more. If you do something dumb like that, expect to be held and grilled, and your shit BETTER be in order. > [@](#): > > Never have i been more torn between my hatred of police brutality and my love of seeing an asshole get what’s coming to him. Exactly my feelings. Sam ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/86 "2003-08-29T18:34:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GaWd \* > \*\*None at all. You are allowed to say anything you want to whomever you want. The police can’t really arrest or cite you for being a dick to them, verbally, but they can certainly scrutinize you more. If you do something dumb like that, expect to be held and grilled, and your shit BETTER be in order. > > Exactly my feelings. > > Sam \*\* That isn’t strictly true. Some counties have ordinances against obscene public displays. You could, AFAIK, criticize an officer verbally at any time so long as you do not do so in an obscene or vulgar manner or so long as you do not interefere with the performance of that officer’s duty (Like shouting over him when he is trying to use his own voice to get a job done, thus causing a distraction. Civillians with bullhorns at riots can be subject to this but it’s a minor bust and I have never heard of charges being brought unless there were other factors). If an officer hassles you your best bet is to get name and badge number and write it down. Contact that officer’s duty Seargant or similar person and insist on a conduct complaint form. Make copies and mail them to the correct authority. Also make phone contact. If you are denied such papaerwork get the name and badge of the officer making the denial and move one stup up the chain. Log the date and time of all incidents. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/87 "2003-08-29T18:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > That isn’t strictly true. Some counties have ordinances against obscene public displays. Actually, I think obscenity was upheld as a 1st amendment right in a federal court a few months ago in Colorado. Specifically, the work “fuck”. However, if you do have obscenity laws, you might want to be careful jus tthe same. Sam ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/88 "2003-08-29T18:53:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GaWd \* > \*\*None at all. You are allowed to say anything you want to whomever you want. The police can’t really arrest or cite you for being a dick to them, verbally, but they can certainly scrutinize you more. If you do something dumb like that, expect to be held and grilled, and your shit BETTER be in order. > > Exactly my feelings. > > Sam \*\* That isn’t strictly true. Some counties have ordinances against obscene public displays. You could, AFAIK, criticize an officer verbally at any time so long as you do not do so in an obscene or vulgar manner or so long as you do not interefere with the performance of that officer’s duty (Like shouting over him when he is trying to use his own voice to get a job done, thus causing a distraction. Civillians with bullhorns at riots can be subject to this but it’s a minor bust and I have never heard of charges being brought unless there were other factors). If an officer hassles you your best bet is to get name and badge number and write it down. Contact that officer’s duty Seargant or similar person, many larger depeartments have an office set up strictly for dealing with officer complaints, and insist on a conduct complaint form. Make copies and mail them to the correct authority. Also make phone contact. If you are denied such papaerwork get the name and badge of the officer making the denial and move one stup up the chain. Log the date and time of all incidents. In LA, for example, officers are prohibited from swearing. Under any circumstances. However, if you were DUII and resisting arrest and then pulled a knife, a complaint on the officer saying “Put down the knife asshole!” will likely yield little result. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/89 "2003-08-29T19:10:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > ust to focus a little bit here on the real problem, Spoofe, look at this line again It may very well be legal for a cop to do what he did, but it doesn’t make it right. It seems that legally, a cop can pull over every single car on the road and stop every single pedestrian and ask them questions. They shouldn’t. In the interests of fighting ignorance, I think the discussion has left a bit of misapprehension alive. The key element is voluntariness. Police have just as much right to walk up to someone and ask them a question as anyone else has. As long as the person is free to disregard the question and go about their business, it’s legal. So the police cannot pull over every single car, for example. Pulling over a car is a detention, however brief and non-intrusive it may be, and must be predicated on at least a reasonable, articulable suspicion of wrong-doing. Similarly, the police may not “stop” every pedestrian. They may ask questions of pedestrians, as long as the pedestrian is free to ignore them. The moment they take an action that a reasonable person would believe is an indication that they are not free to disregard the question, and their liberty is restrained, then there must be a reasonable, articulable suspicion of wrongdoing to justify the stop. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/90 "2003-08-29T19:46:04Z")
I hate to disagree with or nitpick an expert, given my relative lack of knowledge of criminal procedure, but I thought that cops _could_ pull over every single car, for example for a sobriety checkpoint. They just can’t use a subjective standard for deciding which cars to pull over that doesn’t rise to the level of articulable suspicion. However, if I remember the justification for sobriety checkpoint law clearly, I don’t think it would stretch to stopping every pedestrian on the sidewalk. The difference is the relative safety of walking while impaired and driving while impaired. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/91 "2003-08-29T20:45:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **Just FTR, does anyone know if a cop could have arrested ninjachick for calling him an asshole?** I was in court (in Canada) today for a 92 year old who was arrested for allegedly writing “Asshole” on a card and returning it to the sender. He had a lot of fun talking to the crowd while waiting, so the day wasn’t a total waste, but he was pretty disgusted with the police. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/92 "2003-08-29T21:01:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Klaatu \* > \*\*Komrade Ashcroft would be proud. > > If I am minding my own buisness on a fucking bus and a cop outta the blue asked me if I had been smoking, I would tell him to fuck off in a heartbeat. > > The example given in the OP is purely an asshole cop with a baditude for whatever reason, just wanting to fuck with somebody because he has the power. > > I don’t understand how some of you can defend the cop. > > I could invoke Godwin, but I won’t. \*\* You’re reich about that - er, I mean, You’re right about that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/93 "2003-08-29T22:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ENugent \* > \*\*I hate to disagree with or nitpick an expert, given my relative lack of knowledge of criminal procedure, but I thought that cops _could_ pull over every single car, for example for a sobriety checkpoint. They just can’t use a subjective standard for deciding which cars to pull over that doesn’t rise to the level of articulable suspicion. > > However, if I remember the justification for sobriety checkpoint law clearly, I don’t think it would stretch to stopping every pedestrian on the sidewalk. The difference is the relative safety of walking while impaired and driving while impaired. \*\* True on all counts. A checkpoint, established for a limited number of hours and operating by rules approved in advance – every car, or every third car, for instance – is permissible for sobriety checks, although not merely for general law-enforcement purposes. Somehow, I didn’t think of checkpoints as “pulling over” cars so much as “checking” cars. But your point is well-taken. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/94 "2003-08-30T04:13:20Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by GaWd \* \*\*None at all. You are allowed to say anything you want to whomever you want. The police can’t really arrest or cite you for being a dick to them, verbally, but they can certainly scrutinize you more. If you do something dumb like that, expect to be held and grilled, and your shit BETTER be in order. You must be living on a different planet. You say what you want to whoever you want in the world I live in and you’ll get your ass kicked, by cops and non-cops. As far as the police arresting or citing you for being a dick to them, verbally…well here on earth you can and may very well get your ass kicked and then arrested. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/95 "2003-08-30T16:39:16Z")
Well County, pal. The fucking planet I live on gives me specific rights. Inalienable rights. Rights that not even a policeman in a bad mood can violate. What fucking planet do you live on? You sure you’re not from Russia? If I call a cop an asshole because he’s in my business, say for interrogating me about smoking dope, and he then decides to kick my ass and arrest me(arrest me for what?), I will then have said cop’s shield and a suit against his city. It’s very simple. THe 1st amendment does indeed allow me to call you, a moderator, my mother, a waitperson, a passer-by, a grandma, etc, etc an asshole. Any attempt to stifle that speech withstanding local obscenity laws-which as I mentioned before may soon go out the window due to a few court victories-would be a violation of my rights. So what planet are YOU from, pal? Sam P.S.- please tell me what law or ordinance on your planet allows a policeman to arrest you for calling him a “bad” name ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/96 "2003-08-30T20:13:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GaWd \* > \*\*Well County, pal. The fucking planet I live on gives me specific rights. Inalienable rights. Rights that not even a policeman in a bad mood can violate. > > What fucking planet do you live on? You sure you’re not from Russia? > > If I call a cop an asshole because he’s in my business, say for interrogating me about smoking dope, and he then decides to kick my ass and arrest me(arrest me for what?), I will then have said cop’s shield and a suit against his city. > > It’s very simple. THe 1st amendment does indeed allow me to call you, a moderator, my mother, a waitperson, a passer-by, a grandma, etc, etc an asshole. Any attempt to stifle that speech withstanding local obscenity laws-which as I mentioned before may soon go out the window due to a few court victories-would be a violation of my rights. > > So what planet are YOU from, pal? > > Sam > > P.S.- please tell me what law or ordinance on your planet allows a policeman to arrest you for calling him a “bad” name \*\* I live on the same planet as Rodney King. Moron. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/97 "2003-08-30T20:32:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by county \* > \*\*I live on the same planet as Rodney King. Moron. \*\* Rodney King didn’t get arrested and beaten because he said something smart assed to a cop. Rodney King was awarded millions in a civil suit as a result of that incident. Police brutality is a reality for _some_ areas because people allow it to be. At least on my planet. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/98 "2003-08-30T20:44:35Z")
I haven’t read this whole thread, just the OP. But I think that if **NinjaChick** thinks _that_ was “police harassment,” then she doesn’t really know the meaning of the word. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/99 "2003-08-30T21:01:11Z")
County, you’re an ignorant fuck. You have no clue of what you speak. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105/100 "2003-08-30T21:19:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*I’m sorry, but Ninjachick was out of line. A cop’s job is to ask questions and make sure he knows what’s going on. Allergies? I’m sorry, but if I saw someone with red eyes and screwy sinuses, “stoned” would be my first guess, despite knowing several people that get severe allergies. > > And you call the guy an asshole for doing his job? Self-centered bitch, I calls thee. \*\* Don’t start the hypocritical bullshit; you are not sorry, you’re creaming your jeans at the opportunity to attack a young female who looks like easy prey. Just like that cop. No way either one of you would start shit with me in similar circumstances. Not fun to get harasses all out porportion to the situation, is it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-gave-him-a-gun/198105.md?page=6)