# They messed with the alphabet song?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717 "2019-10-30T21:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/41 "2019-10-31T16:33:55Z")
Didn’t there used to be a Doper called **Elemenope**? ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/42 "2019-10-31T16:47:53Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Do they wonder what happened to U and V? Haha I was wondering how many people were going to quote that version and say “hey i like it!” without noticing it didn’t even have all the letters. Whenever I’ve heard the alphabet songs in a context where it’s actually for little kids to learn it, they slow down and enunciate the LMNOP part. It’s really not difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/43 "2019-10-31T16:52:30Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Didn’t there used to be a Doper called **Elemenope**? :shakes tiny fist: ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/44 "2019-10-31T16:58:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Is this really new? Nope. See link in post #19. > [@RaftPeople](#): > > Do they wonder what happened to U and V? UV is invisible. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/45 "2019-10-31T17:00:43Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Didn’t there used to be a Doper called **Elemenope**? There’s a Disney character called [El Emenopio](https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/El_Emenopio). ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/46 "2019-10-31T20:23:33Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > It’s a Mickey Mouse planet. Anything after Saturn is just outer Uranus. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/47 "2019-10-31T20:50:16Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Scans to the tune of “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” much better than the one in the OP. I’m seriously ashamed to admit that this is the first time I realized that the alphabet song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star share the same tune. It’s obvious now that you say it, but I never made the connection ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/48 "2019-10-31T20:53:24Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > I’m seriously ashamed to admit that this is the first time I realized that the alphabet song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star share the same tune. It’s obvious now that you say it, but I never made the connection Ever heard of Baa Baa Black Sheep? ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/49 "2019-10-31T21:18:23Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > [snipped] > > Whenever I’ve heard the alphabet songs in a context where it’s actually for little kids to learn it, they slow down and enunciate the LMNOP part. It’s really not difficult. This is what I did with my kids. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/50 "2019-10-31T21:18:57Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@Frazzled](#): > > > > I’m seriously ashamed to admit that this is the first time I realized that the alphabet song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star share the same tune. It’s obvious now that you say it, but I never made the connection > > Ever heard of Baa Baa Black Sheep? [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah!_vous_dirai-je,_maman) says that all three songs use the melody of a French song, “Ah! vous dirai-je, maman”. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/51 "2019-10-31T21:19:43Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Try this: > > ```auto > > A B C D E F G > H I J K L M N > O P Q > R S T > W X Y and Z > > ``` > > Scans to the tune of “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” much better than the one in the OP. What do you have against U and V? ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/52 "2019-10-31T21:28:32Z")
Also, yes I do use it as an adult. I think it’s because I’m a more auditory learner, but for at least some letters, I can’t immediately name the letters on either side of it, or I’m not positive when I do, so I mentally run through just a snippet of the alphabet song to confirm. I freely admit that this may be weird, but my guess is that at least some other adults do this too. It’s just about how the information is stored or accessed in your mind. I haven’t listened to the changed version, but I wouldn’t care if my kids were taught it. I don’t have that kind of nostalgia for the alphabet song, and if kids aren’t confused by it, that is better. It’s true that most kids figure it out relatively quickly, but why use something they have to decode to teach them the alphabet? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/53 "2019-10-31T21:32:19Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I don’t know who **“They”** is, but the song is a cultural thing that is passed down generation to generation. My mom taught me and my siblings the song when we were toddlers. My wife and I taught it to our children. So I’m sure that my kids will teach it my grandchildren, if they have any. > > Making cultural shifts like this are difficult, and posting a youtube video of a change, doesn’t mean it will occur. I think if we flunk those pre-schoolers, they’ll know we mean business and will pick up the new version. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/54 "2019-10-31T21:34:05Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > UV is invisible. 😉 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/55 "2019-10-31T21:40:19Z")
Am I the only one who actually thought “elemeno” was a letter as a kid? Granted, I figured it out by age four or five, but still. I was as outraged over the newfangled nonexistence of the best-named letter as, well, most people in this thread are over the song change. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/56 "2019-10-31T21:54:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah!_vous_dirai-je,_maman) says that all three songs use the melody of a French song, “Ah! vous dirai-je, maman”. I’ve heard in the 19th century it was common for people to take a well known melody and write new words for it, which I’m sure it why these songs all share the same melody. And regarding the Alphabet Song, I’ve heard that it’s actually not a very good teaching tool. All kids really learn from it is what order the letters come in. A better one would be one that names objects that start with each letter. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/57 "2019-10-31T21:56:01Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > And regarding the Alphabet Song, I’ve heard that it’s actually not a very good teaching tool. All kids really learn from it is what order the letters come in. A better one would be one that names objects that start with each letter. How would that help you learn alphabetical order? ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/58 "2019-10-31T21:59:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How would that help you learn alphabetical order? If the song still listed the objects in alphabetical order I don’t see why it wouldn’t. For example when I was a kid we had a tape that included a song that went something like: Apple, apple, ah ah ah Baby, baby, buh buh buh And so on. ETA: And IIRC it came with an illustrated book so you could see what letter when with what object. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/59 "2019-10-31T22:08:59Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > If the song still listed the objects in alphabetical order I don’t see why it wouldn’t. > > For example when I was a kid we had a tape that included a song that went something like: > Apple, apple, ah ah ah > Baby, baby, buh buh buh > And so on. > > ETA: And IIRC it came with an illustrated book so you could see what letter when with what object. While that would be a good start on teaching what the letters _were_, it would end up way too long to be an efficient way to memorize their order. Say what you will about lmnop, but once you _do_ know what the letters are, the unaltered song does an excellent job of turning the dry recitation of the letters into a mnemonic. Which is pretty much the main reason turning it back into a dry recitation is a terrible idea. You want your kids to know that lmnop isn’t a letter? Teach them the letters directly! But don’t mess up the song! ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/60 "2019-11-01T00:28:09Z")
This is the REAL alphabet song. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/bgmdnxtz3Bo/hqdefault.jpg "The Three Stooges - Swingin' The Alphabet (1938).avi") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgmdnxtz3Bo) SWING IT!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717.md?page=4)