# They messed with the alphabet song?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717 "2019-10-30T21:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/61 "2019-11-01T00:42:05Z")
[I guess the letters can come back now](https://www.amazon.com/Elemenopee-Left-ABCs-Pamela-Hall/dp/1581172095). ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/62 "2019-11-01T17:50:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I saw the Daily Show bit on this as well, and yes it seems silly to those of us who learned the alphabet decades ago. But I assume someone who works with small children has identified the slurring of the LMNOP as a real problem and feels it necessary to make the separation between letters more distinct. I don’t know any small children so I don’t know if this is a problem. I get that, but I think the fact that no one except a 4-5 year old would still think that years later means it’s nothing more than a momentary bit of confusion, and not really deserving the rewrite of a song sung for decades. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/63 "2019-11-01T22:20:45Z")
I’ve got nothing against changing the song if they think the run of LMNO as “elemeno” is confusing. But then, if you’re going to change the song, why stick with the same melody? You’re getting rid of tradition, so go all the way. Doing it this way seems designed specifically to spark controversy, and trying to capitalize on that. I do not predict this version winning over the other one. They are in direct competition, and the original has too much inertia behind it. Personally, I say to just slow it down a bit and make clear separations between each letter. Maybe even add a bit of syncopation. They did that with Happy Birthday (converting it to 4/4) and now kids are constantly singing that version. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/64 "2019-11-01T22:38:53Z")
I have faint memories of the enunciation being clear when I first heard the song - the cadence was slower, as well. I also have memories of, you know, _having been taught the alphabet_. If a kid’s educator just slaps them with the song and wanders off, then what you have there is a crappy educator. If you have even a passing familiarity with the alphabet LMNOP isn’t confusing, and if you don’t have some awareness of letters what are you supposed to make of the song? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/65 "2019-11-02T07:05:43Z")
And now having had time to listen to the video linked (the one from the Daily Show), I point out that the version they made is already slow enough, and the letters are already very well separated. So just sing the original song, with separate L, M, N, O, rather than ellemmenno. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/66 "2019-11-02T16:27:57Z")
My sister didn’t have any problem with LMNOP, but did wonder why there were 2 Ns in the alphabet – M **N** O and Y **N** Z. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/67 "2019-11-03T03:14:52Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I wish I could find a link to anyone singing the ‘Australian Alphabet Song’ my sister-in-law taught me one time. Sung to a modified ‘Polly Wolly Doodle’ - ends the phrases on C,G,M then Q,U,Z. Works great. Thank you, thank you! I grew up with that version as well (which makes more sense, because the ‘Z’ then rhymes with the ‘M’). But I had no idea what the tune was - I guess I was never introduced to Polly-Wolly-Doodle as a kid. I have searched the interwebb a few times trying to track it down exactly what the melody was. The best part was having races to see who could sing it fastest - while still staying (somewhat) true to the tune. Kindergarten was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/68 "2019-11-03T04:02:52Z")
Just to emphasise - \*modified \*version. If you do track down “Polly Wolly Doodle” you might possibly go WFT?? Not The Same! because it’s same core notes but rather different rhythm. We used to do a game where we’d sing one alphabet verse, then swap in a nursery rhyme to the same tune, then another alphabet verse, and see how long we could go on for. There’s lots of nursery rhymes that work - Jack and Jill, Little Miss Muffet, Itsy-bitsy spider (takes two verses), Little Jack Horner … and on and on ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/69 "2019-11-03T13:19:26Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > … (which makes more sense, because the ‘Z’ then rhymes with the ‘M’) … Whaaat? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/70 "2019-11-03T18:07:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah!_vous_dirai-je,_maman) says that all three songs use the melody of a French song, “Ah! vous dirai-je, maman”. Mozart composed a set of variations on the melody as well. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/71 "2019-11-03T18:09:31Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Whaaat? Many English speaking countries pronounce Z as _zed_. Not a perfect rhyme. More of a rap rhyme than a Cole Porter rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/72 "2019-11-03T18:17:44Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > While that would be a good start on teaching what the letters _were_, it would end up way too long to be an efficient way to memorize their order. > > Say what you will about lmnop, but once you _do_ know what the letters are, the unaltered song does an excellent job of turning the dry recitation of the letters into a mnemonic. Which is pretty much the main reason turning it back into a dry recitation is a terrible idea. You want your kids to know that lmnop isn’t a letter? Teach them the letters directly! But don’t mess up the song! It is just a mnemonic to learn the letters in alphabetical order. Nothing else. I learned that song very young. I knew ABC was something, but everything else was just sounds. The elemeno was no impediment to learning to read later on (something I did pretty much on my own after getting a few ‘A as in Apple’ basics and some crude word recognition 1st grade edumacation. Unless someone can point me to an adult is illiterate as a result of elemeno then I think any arguments against it are absurd. It is not confusing, elemeno is one of the first educational discoveries kids have been making for years. It is exactly what is needed in education to combat the over abundance of dry rote techniques and the overswing of the pendulum in the other direction with overly complex learning techniques. Let those little rotten kids learn something on their own for once when they’re just starting out and maybe later on they won’t need to be spoon fed so much. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/73 "2019-11-03T18:28:52Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Am I the only one who actually thought “elemeno” was a letter as a kid? While I’m one of those kids who wondered in kindergarten and even first grade who [Richard Stands](http://www.lynngosnell.com/content/2009/07/04/for-richard-stands/) was, I didn’t think elemeno was a letter. My parents were very serious about the “no screens before age three” thing so I didn’t watch Sesame Street younger than that and my dad taught me to read at three, so I already knew the alphabet before learning the song in preschool. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/74 "2019-11-03T21:24:07Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Many English speaking countries pronounce Z as _zed_. Not a perfect rhyme. More of a rap rhyme than a Cole Porter rhyme. I considered that as an explanation and the “Whaaat?” still stands. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/75 "2019-11-03T22:42:27Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I considered that as an explanation and the “Whaaat?” still stands. Me too. Mostly because they don’t also pronounce C as ced, D as ded, and B as bed. And partly because they don’t say zedbra. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/76 "2019-11-04T02:38:27Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I remember when I was her age, hearing parents complain about ‘new math’ the same way I’ve complained about Common Core math. I used to substitute teach, and the school inexplicable adopted the University of Chicago’s “Everyday Math” program. They did multiplication with a matrix. I stared at this, and couldn’t comprehend. A student did an example for me (a fourth grader). I wanted to recite a prayer of exorcism over the black magic he did to multiply those number. The superintendent who brought this blaspheme to our children was fired for drunk driving. Very soon after, they adopted another program “in preparation for” the Common Core. Very soon after that, they adopted another program that implemented the Common Core. My tax dollars at work, replacing the textbooks every two years. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/77 "2019-11-04T07:09:16Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Me too. Mostly because they don’t also pronounce C as ced, D as ded, and B as bed. And partly because they don’t say zedbra. We don’t say zeebra either. Zebra. Like it’s spelled. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717/78 "2019-11-04T07:39:09Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > UV is invisible. 😉 [smacks **Skywatcher** ’s face] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-messed-with-the-alphabet-song/842717.md?page=3)