# They say I would be crazy to move into that neighborhood **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 19, 2004, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946 "2004-05-19T11:42:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/41 "2004-05-20T16:28:34Z")
> [@bat312](#): > > Here is the dope. I am white, the neighborhood is African American (black). I have the opportunity to cut my rent in half, move closer to the lake (Michigan), and have a larger, nicer apartment. The problem is that anyone I tell about my stupid plan thinks I will be killed or at least unhappy. Chicago dopers will understand this next part. The location is in the extreme southeast corner of Bronzeville, 9 streets from the northwest boarder of Hyde Park and 6 streets west of the boarder of Kenwood (both very nice areas). The area is depressed but I believe it is getting better (one block from the new Harold Washington Cultural Center). I would put myself in a better financial situation, but am scared by the opinions from my friends and associates. > > Here is the question, does anyone else have an experience of moving to a culturally different neighborhood. > 😕 I was having a discussion about this with a developer the other day. It’s the next big thing. Currently depressed due to some odd land-acquisition agreements with UChicago, but the only place that Hyde Park and Bronzeville (in the midst of its…second? third? Renaissance) can expand, it’s going to get heavily developed in the next five years (if that). The important thing is that you feel safe, but as for it becoming gentrified in the next couple of years, I don’t think you’ll have to worry. Prices will likley shoot up soon though. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/42 "2004-05-20T19:07:54Z")
> [@Zeffir](#): > > 1. I haven’t had a car break in or any other untoward incident occur since moving here. Someone broke out my car window once, when I was in college. Happened in a “white” neighborhood. > [@](#): > > 1. I live with people that are culturally like me, so I am socially comfortable. My apartment building is 90% Russian. There’s a shul in my basement and a giant menorah sits on the front lawn. When I step into the elevator with other residents, I’m usually the only person who speaks English without a foreign accent. We have signs posted up that are in Russian, Spanish, and English. Sometimes the signs are only printed in Russian. (Incidently, my predominately white apartment complex has a reputation for being dangerous. Go figure.) If I didn’t live here, I would have never guessed that there were so many Russian folk who live in Newark, NJ. The experience has also changed my perception that all Jews are rich. Try breaking out of that “comfort” zone and you might learn a thing or two. > [@](#): > > You must know that there exists extreme prejudice against “white” people on the part of Blacks. Perhaps more so than vice versa! They hate caucasians, for the most part. Yeah! Look at all the blacks posting on the SDMB talking about how dangerous it is to live around whites and forming stupid-ass generalizations about them! We blacks sho nuff hate us some whitey. > [@](#): > > Also, instead of lowering your living standard to achieve a better economic situation, why don’t you consider elevating yourself so you can live better. I dunno. I always understood the concept of self-sacrifice leading to reward. I don’t understand how one can achieve a better economic situation without saving money where they can. Maybe **bat** can afford rent in a “nicer” area, but then he might not be able to go to school or take vacations where he wants to go, or save money for a new car. Maybe he can’t afford rent in a nicer area at all. Who are you to tell him he’s not elevating himself? I forgot to say in my earlier post that there were white people who lived in my predominately black neighborhood. Some were hold-overs from when the neighborhood was predominately white. Others were like **bat** …people who were willing to live by experience rather than by assumptions and perceptions. All the white people I knew in the neighborhood were nice and seemed to enjoy their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Lynne\_kilii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lynne\_kilii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynne_kilii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/43 "2004-05-20T19:35:52Z")
> [@Sternvogel](#): > > Actually, if the radius is doubled, the area of the resulting circle is quadruple that of the original, so your neighborhood (assuming, probably incorrectly, a geographically consistent crime rate throughout your city) is actually slightly more dangerous than the one **bat312** is considering. Dang you! I sat here at my desk and figured it out with a pencil and paper. I was all proud of myself… Now I see you didn’t even need pencil and paper… but at least I knew there was a logical error there. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/44 "2004-05-20T19:44:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve been very tempred to consider a house in neighborhoods in Cleveland Heights or Shaker Heights where blacks outnumber whites. They are both OK plaes to live. Shaker Hts has a well-deserved reputation as one of the earliest successfully integrated neighborhoods in the U.S. Cleveland Hts. has garnered a reputation for odd tricks at city hall and poor schools. The “street” feeling about Cleveland Hts is that it has more vandalism and burglaries than Shaker Hts, University Hts, or South Euclid. You’d have to check out actual statistics to see whether the perception is based on anything real. I have not heard of any ethnic friction in any of those places in years and violence tends to be among “friends” ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_Milburn\_Drysdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs\_Milburn\_Drysdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_Milburn_Drysdale)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/45 "2004-05-20T21:14:08Z")
… but in NY. I lived in a bunch of neighborhoods “before” - Williamsburg, the East Village, Astoria, Bushwick (which they are now calling ‘East Williamsburg.’) I don’t know the neighborhoods you are talking about, obviously, but the most important thing in ANY neighborhood is the late night “drive by.” If I had done that, I wouldn’t have lost $1k+ in the move to Bushwick that lasted 10 days (giant loft, cheap - DISASTER! read: CRACK.) All the other ones, though were just great. No problems. There were drugs (mostly heroin) and prostitution (again, heroin) and in those days you’d see needles all around. But I never had any trouble. I had bars on my windows and all the usual stuff, but nothing. Bushwick was a different story, but now I hear (I’m in LA now) that it’s on the way up. Alot of ‘good’ neighborhoods are completely deserted at night and more dangerous. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![bat312](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c77e96/32.png) [@bat312](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bat312)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/46 "2004-05-21T00:11:16Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Oooooo…I get very nervous when I hear people say they have burglar bars. They are the cause of many deaths by fire, and make it tough for help to reach you should you need it. You should be very, very careful if you have them. Just concerned, that’s all. Wow, I have been at work all day and just had a chance to check back. Thank you everyone for your opinions. As for the burglar bars, top of the line stuff from Canada’s Mr. Good Bar .[http://goodbar.ca/Product\_Information/Photo\_Gallery.asp](http://goodbar.ca/Product_Information/Photo_Gallery.asp) One quick release window in each room. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/47 "2004-05-21T01:48:56Z")
Gee, I don’t know. The area defined by the Dan Ryan, MLK Drive, 31st St. and Pershing Road would seem a bit dangerous to me. ---
**Author:** ![bat312](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c77e96/32.png) [@bat312](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bat312)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/48 "2004-05-21T03:35:42Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > Gee, I don’t know. The area defined by the Dan Ryan, MLK Drive, 31st St. and Pershing Road would seem a bit dangerous to me. The actual location is one block east of MLK drive if that matters. ---
**Author:** ![moi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/49 "2004-05-21T04:11:34Z")
I stand corrected and thank **Sternvogel** and **Lynne\_kilii** for pointing out my error. I had to pull out pen and paper to see the mistake, but I have it now. **Sternvogel** ’s also likely to be correct that I can’t extrapolate what the crime rate would be in a one-mile radius from my apartment (the neighborhood to the north is nicer than mine, to the south it’s rougher and to the west there’s a club/bar where I know a few folks have been robbed). Anyway, the lesson was useful because 1. I hadn’t used pi in a long time. 2. I also didn’t think my neighborhood was _that_ safe. 3. Hi, Opal! Now that I’ve said all that, wanna visit these parts again? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IUchem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@IUchem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IUchem)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/50 "2004-05-21T04:30:03Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Wow. 116 crimes in the last 15 days, including one murder. 33 crimes against persons, 71 on property, 4 against society, 7 domestic incidents, and one property damage. That seems pretty high, doesn’t it? Depends where you are in Chicago . . . ---
**Author:** ![bat312](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c77e96/32.png) [@bat312](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bat312)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946/51 "2004-05-23T03:21:12Z")
A little more checking shows the Gold Coast of Chicago vs South Side About the Crime Query Chart Information Beat: 1824 District: 018 The centerpoint of this query is located within the above Beat. However, this query may include other surrounding Beats. Intersection: MICHIGAN AVE and OAK ST Search Radius: 1 Mile Total Number of Mapped Crimes: 72 Start Date: 5/2/2004 End Date: 5/15/2004 Crime Type: ALL Click here for Community Alerts. DISCLAIMER: This data reflects crimes as reported to the police as of the current date, occurring during the selected date range for the selected area. These crimes are based upon preliminary information supplied to the Police Department by the reporting parties and have not been verified. The preliminary crime classifications may be changed at a later date based upon additional investigation and there is always the possibility of mechanical or human error. Therefore, the Chicago Police Department does not guarantee (either expressed or implied) the accuracy, completeness, timeliness, or correct sequencing of the information and the information should not be used for comparison purposes over time. The Chicago Police Department will not be responsible for any error or omission, or for the use of, or the results obtained from the use of this information. All data visualizations on maps should be considered approximate and attempts to derive specific addresses are strictly prohibited. Chart Key Crime Count CRIME CLASSIFICATION Description 22 PERSON 5 ASSAULT 10 BATTERY 5 ROBBERY 2 HARASSMENT BY TELEPHONE 45 PROPERTY 3 CRIMINAL DAMAGE 15 THEFT 1 DECEPTION 6 MOTOR VEHICLE THEFT 8 DECEPTIVE PRACTICE 6 CRIMINAL TRESPASS 4 BURGLARY 1 FALSE POLICE REPORT 1 ATTEMPT MOTOR VEHICLE THEFT 1 SOCIETY 1 NARCOTICS 4 PERSON (Domestic) 1 TELEPHONE THREATS Beat: 0222 District: 002 The centerpoint of this query is located within the above Beat. However, this query may include other surrounding Beats. Intersection: 46TH and S. DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR DR Search Radius: 1 Mile Total Number of Mapped Crimes: 82 Start Date: 5/2/2004 End Date: 5/15/2004 Crime Type: ALL Click here for Community Alerts. DISCLAIMER: This data reflects crimes as reported to the police as of the current date, occurring during the selected date range for the selected area. These crimes are based upon preliminary information supplied to the Police Department by the reporting parties and have not been verified. The preliminary crime classifications may be changed at a later date based upon additional investigation and there is always the possibility of mechanical or human error. Therefore, the Chicago Police Department does not guarantee (either expressed or implied) the accuracy, completeness, timeliness, or correct sequencing of the information and the information should not be used for comparison purposes over time. The Chicago Police Department will not be responsible for any error or omission, or for the use of, or the results obtained from the use of this information. All data visualizations on maps should be considered approximate and attempts to derive specific addresses are strictly prohibited. Chart Key Crime Count CRIME CLASSIFICATION Description 30 PERSON 19 BATTERY 4 ASSAULT 2 TELEPHONE THREATS 4 ROBBERY 1 WEAPONS VIOLATION 42 PROPERTY 11 CRIMINAL DAMAGE 12 THEFT 6 BURGLARY 10 CRIMINAL TRESPASS 3 MOTOR VEHICLE THEFT 9 PERSON (Domestic) 2 ASSAULT 3 TELEPHONE THREATS 2 ROBBERY 2 VIOLATION ORDER OF PROTECTION 1 UNDETERMINED 1 FINANCIAL IDENTITY THEFT Fairly similar :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-say-i-would-be-crazy-to-move-into-that-neighborhood/245946.md?page=2)