# They still don't know if the Loch Ness Monster is real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2003, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938 "2003-08-18T10:05:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/41 "2023-08-08T01:29:36Z")
> [@David\_Simmons](#): > > I suspect that scientists in the field of zoology are too busy with projects that matter to take the time for such a non-problem. Money and time for such nonsense is limited to journalists and documentary producers who are looking for a story to fell an hour of TV programming time. And the odd group of grad students. I suspect some group, somewhere has done lake DNA analysis. Just for practice. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/42 "2023-08-08T01:54:25Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I suspect some group, somewhere has done lake DNA analysis. Just for practice. See: > **[Loch Ness Contains No 'Monster' DNA, Say Scientists](https://www.livescience.com/loch-ness-monster-dna-study.html)** > > If "Nessie" exists, she's doing a good job of hiding. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/43 "2023-08-08T02:28:03Z")
Thank you. Decades ago a group did a study of the estimated poundage of salmon available in Loch Ness and calculated how many monsters it could support. I believe it wasn’t enough to be a breeding colony. A similar calculation (not of salmon particularly) was done for Lake Tahoe, which had a much less famous monster way back when. I’m trying to think of its name. Maybe Tessie? Too long ago. Never underestimate what scientists will do for fun. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/44 "2023-08-08T04:30:22Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > A similar calculation (not of salmon particularly) was done for Lake Tahoe, which had a much less famous monster way back when. I’m trying to think of its name. Maybe Tessie? Too long ago. Tahoe Tessie. One of many. > **[List of lake monsters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lake_monsters)** > > The list of lake and river monsters attested in worldwide folklore. >  Vermont >  Quebec >  Virginia >  Delaware ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/45 "2023-08-08T04:42:51Z")
I remembered! Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/46 "2023-08-16T19:50:32Z")
They searched it many years ago, and found nothing (though they did find a WW2 bomber that had ditched there in 1939 that everyone had forgotten about). ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/47 "2023-08-18T22:57:59Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > My understanding is that “scientists” think that IF there is/has been a large creature in Loch Ness it’s an invertabrate. I note the scare quotes, still I doubt and real scientists believe even in the remote possibility that Nessie exists. As **Odesio** notes: _“Any creature the size of Nessie would leave evidence of its existence. Keep in mind that we can’t be talking about a single creature here, we’ve got to be talking about a population that manages to reproduce every few years. Something that big has to eat a lot of food and it’s going to take a toll on the ecosystem. The same is true of Bigfoot. An ape larger than a man is going to leave all sorts of evidence. Fur, feces, remains, it’s prey, etc., etc.”_ There has to be a breeding population and would have long ago decimated the local fish populations. I’m always amused by the logistics of these kinds of things; Science pours millions of dollars and man-hours using high tech equipment studying and searching for Nessie without results yet every yahoo passing by with a Vaseline coated camera lens sees the thing and grabs a “pic”. . ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/48 "2023-08-19T00:08:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > I note the scare quotes, still I doubt and real scientists believe even in the remote possibility that Nessie exists. I’m not sure what you mean, so for the record I put the quotes because I wasn’t at all certain the scientists in question were even real. And I do agree with Odesio’s quote 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/49 "2023-08-21T20:22:30Z")
Well this should clear it up once and for all. Again. > **[Loch Ness monster enthusiasts gear up for biggest search in 50 years](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/21/loch-ness-monster-enthusiasts-gear-up-for-biggest-search-in-50-years)** > > Using drones and acoustic equipment, hundreds of volunteers from around the world take part in the surface watch ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/50 "2023-08-21T20:31:46Z")
Everybody needs a hobby. As long as there are enough potties for everyone, _shrug_ it keeps them off the streets. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/51 "2023-08-21T20:37:38Z")
_Many miles away_ _Something crawls from the slime_ _At the bottom of a dark Scottish lake_ _Many miles away_ _Something crawls to the surface_ _Of a dark Scottish loch_ _Many miles away_ _There’s a shadow on the door_ _Of a cottage on the shore_ _Of a dark Scottish lake_ _Many miles away_ ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/52 "2023-08-21T21:23:20Z")
Worth noting that it’s being organized by the local tourism center who say “It’s our hope to inspire a new generation of Loch Ness enthusiasts…” ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/53 "2023-08-22T18:10:17Z")
Maybe the reason people have difficulty seeing it is because it’s glass-like: like this creature 2300 feet below the ocean surface off the Aleutian Islands. > **[It's Clear: This Squid Is Awesome](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAKQu9CiIfc%2F)** > > Amazing footage of a glass squid, Taonius borealis, seen at a depth of 700 meters (2,300 feet) during the first dive of the Seascape Alaska 3 expedition. The... ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/54 "2023-08-24T19:28:13Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > There has to be a breeding population and would have long ago decimated the local fish populations. You’re making the wild assumption that Loch Ness is a wholly natural and unmanaged body of water, rather than a managed, monitored, and nurtured location for exo-planetary scientists to study Earth’s historical life forms. Ultimately, science only narrows down the options but it can never fully rule out a sufficiently magical alternative. Nessie will continue to be an option until we forget about the matter and move onto more interesting mysteries. The local tourist bureau of the town would prefer that, that not happen and are liable to continue pushing for the controversy so I’m not strongly hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/55 "2023-08-24T22:57:28Z")
Few know this1, but Loch Ness is connected to the Atlantic Ocean via the River Ness, the Moray Firth, and the vasty deep. Loch Ness itself contains more water than all lakes in England and Wales combined. So (happily) there is space for legions of Loch Ness monsters to dwell. The evidence regarding the Loch Ness monster is by now unassailable. There is the minor matter of what form Nessie takes. Some say sturgeon. Some say school of otters, others schools of eels. Still others claim he is a toy submarine with a plastic head stuck on top of it. Then there’s driftwood, one possible explanation for the Mangetout photo. Investigation continues. 1 \< 1x10^9 ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/56 "2023-08-24T23:37:42Z")
According to the newsfeed on my phone, they’re organizing drones for a search. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/57 "2023-08-25T01:08:27Z")
Sonar don’t care about optical transparency. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/58 "2023-08-25T17:51:05Z")
NYT reports on new search for Loch Ness Monster. It’s a fun story, albeit with little new information. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/world/europe/loch-ness-monster-search-timeline.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/world/europe/loch-ness-monster-search-timeline.html) I knew about the 2003 BBC sonar search, but didn’t know that they raised and lowered a fence post in front of a tourist boat and then asked for drawings. Yes, some reported monsters. There is a Loch Ness Monster registry on the internet with a lot of pics, I’m guessing from cell phones. I’m willing to conclude that the body of water contains many residents, some of whom surface from time to time and leave ripples in the water. [https://www.lochnesssightings.com/index.asp?pageid=717286](https://www.lochnesssightings.com/index.asp?pageid=717286) I’m wondering/hoping that moving forwards some monster-adjacent science could receive additional support in LN. Wiki article on lake ecosystems: [Lake ecosystem - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_ecosystem) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/59 "2023-08-25T18:57:22Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Few know this, but Loch Ness is connected to the Atlantic Ocean via the River Ness, the Moray Firth… Just for giggles, I Google Mapped the area. While technically true, there’s no way a monster could make it. Heading for Morey Firth, there’s quite a bottleneck at 57.432299, -4.301450 (google maps). [Here’s a drones view of that section.](https://www.google.com/maps/@57.4330076,-4.3021141,3a,75y,162.45h,34.84t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNqJVkQCn7EWUfEQy-uTaSBcpV1bTmO8oZYTZ7E!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNqJVkQCn7EWUfEQy-uTaSBcpV1bTmO8oZYTZ7E%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya145.54507-ro-0-fo100!7i4096!8i2048?entry=ttu) The western branch is blocked by a lock and the east side is split into shallows. On the southern end, the lower of the two outlets is blocked by locks (57.144733, -4.683086) and [RIVER OICH proper is mostly Grade 2 rapids.](https://rivertoseascotland.co.uk/product/river-oich/) One incredibly fun fact is that if you put the Loch Ness in the middle of your screen (Google Maps), the little Street View guy turns into the Loch Ness Monster. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You’re making the wild assumption that Loch Ness is a wholly natural and unmanaged body of water, rather than a managed, monitored, and nurtured location for exo-planetary scientists to study Earth’s historical life forms. Yep, I’m not much fun at parties. :~) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938/60 "2023-08-25T19:24:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > The western branch is blocked by a lock and the east side is split into shallows. Lots of locks, the western channel is a canal, not a branch of the river. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > On the southern end, the lower of the two outlets is blocked by locks (57.144733, -4.683086) and [RIVER OICH proper is mostly Grade 2 rapids.](https://rivertoseascotland.co.uk/product/river-oich/) The River Oich flows into Loch Ness, and again the neighbouring ladder of locks is a separate canal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-still-dont-know-if-the-loch-ness-monster-is-real/195938.md?page=4)