# They wouldn't fly now **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825 "2022-04-14T14:24:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/41 "2022-04-15T05:43:08Z")
> [@cincinnatus](#): > > A man singing in a gravely voice, or any voice, really, “Thank heaven for little girls.” What do you see as problematic? And please don’t say it’s a song that is about being attracted to little girls. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/42 "2022-04-15T05:46:19Z")
It’s a song that is about being attracted to little girls, and you didn’t say pretty please. Perhaps you would like to make your case that it is _not_ really creepy? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/43 "2022-04-15T05:56:02Z")
Not my onus of proof. Read the lyrics ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/44 "2022-04-15T06:12:57Z")
I am well aware of the lyrics, and I feel no burden whatsoever to “prove” that those immensely creepy lyrics are creepy. If you want to convince anyone otherwise, you’ll have to do better that “not my onus of proof”, however devastating a rhetorical blow you might imagine that to be. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/45 "2022-04-15T06:14:52Z")
Except for the refrain I didn’t know what the lyrics were. [Turns out they’re even creepier than I thought.](https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/maurice-chevalier/thank-heaven-for-little-girls) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/46 "2022-04-15T06:18:58Z")
In other words apart from saying the lyrics are creepy repeatedly, you are unable to articulate why or how or to provide any parsing to support your view. Here’s a clue: a song about how thankful one is for seeds because they become vegetables is not about how much one likes eating seeds. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/47 "2022-04-15T06:34:17Z")
Do you know what the movie [Gigi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigi_(1958_film)#Plot) is about? Joyously raising children to be prostitutes doesn’t fly these days. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/48 "2022-04-15T06:34:52Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > you are unable to articulate why or how or to provide any parsing to support your view. No, I said I don’t _feel any burden to_ because it’s so obvious. > [@Princhester](#): > > Here’s a clue: a song about how thankful one is for seeds because they become vegetables is not about how much one likes eating seeds. If I can follow your complex and subtle analogy, the “seeds” are young children, seeds grow into vegetables, and “eating vegetables” is having sex. So singing about how thankful you are that young children are going to _become_ something you want to have sex with is not creepy? Yeah, this “clue” is really not helping. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/49 "2022-04-15T06:37:07Z")
Seriously you think that’s what I mean? The songs doesn’t mention sex. I think there is someone here who is sexualising and it ain’t me. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/50 "2022-04-15T09:30:55Z")
When the song was popular, the overall sense was clearly “little girls grow up to be women, and where would we men be without women?” In today’s hyper-aware milieu, the whiff of sexualization of young girls would be enough to kill it, but it really was just a whiff at the time. There were acres of worse. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/51 "2022-04-15T11:21:02Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > A whole bunch of stuff that would rightly be considered sexual assault today. Anyone remember “goosing”? Apparently it’s still popular overseas, at least among kids: > **[Kanchō](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanch%C5%8D)** > > Kanchō (カンチョー) is a prank performed by clasping the hands together in the shape of an imaginary gun and attempting to poke an unsuspecting victim's anus, often while exclaiming "Kan-CHO!". It is a common prank among children in East Asian countries such as Japan. In Korea, it is called ddongchim (Korean: 똥침). In China, it is popularly called qiānnián shā (千年殺), which was derived from the jutsu technique in the manga and anime series Naruto, in which it is known as 千年殺し (sennen goroshi In English-... from **[this 2010 article](https://www.newsreview.com/reno/content/stranger-in-a-strange-land/1361861/)**: > Another surprise was learning what amazingly good senses of humor Korean 6- to 11-year-olds have. I learned this after the two-class, “teacher is new, be careful” grace period expired, and my kids started acting like children. I started taking on nicknames like Benjamonkey and _bumjae-sunsangneem_ , which roughly translates into “professor of crime.” Several students were kind enough to introduce me to _ddong-chim_ , which involves making a “handgun,” sneaking up behind the teacher and doing your best to sodomize him with your fingers. The first time that happened I could do nothing more than turn, face the little boy and look amazed. “Did you really just do that?” ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/52 "2022-04-15T12:54:52Z")
I remember a Shirley Temple movie that included a scene set on an airliner. Shirley is singing a song and the male, middle aged or older, passengers are passing her hand to hand as she sang he piece. Cute at the time, mid 30’s perhaps, but maybe not so much now. Film was [Bright Eyes](https://youtu.be/WLLSqpYyPD8), 1934 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/53 "2022-04-15T13:17:46Z")
Probably would fly today with small changes, mainly the guys keeping their hands off her. The scene was clearly infantalizing Temple, not sexualizing her. Some people would still find it creepy, but they’re the ones still trying to ban dancing. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/54 "2022-04-15T14:25:40Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > When the song was popular, the overall sense was clearly “little girls grow up to be women, and where would we men be without women?” In today’s hyper-aware milieu, the whiff of sexualization of young girls would be enough to kill it, but it really was just a whiff at the time. Agree. I can’t remember ever hearing the song or reading the lyrics before @TriPolar linked to them. Reading those lyrics, I can see why some people find them creepy, but I don’t think they’re _inherently_ creepy; I think the creepiness is in the ear of the beholder, and that the song is from a more innocent time. As such, I think it’s a good example of something that “wouldn’t fly now.” Another, perhaps similar, example, is the nude or semi-nude photos of children that were taken by Lewis Carroll and others in the Victorian Era. As I understand it, to them, because the pictures were of children, they were innocent and nonsexual. To us, because the pictures were of children, they’re icky and taboo (while we are far more casual about adult nudity). [Cite, fron the Smithsonian magazine](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/lewis-carrolls-shifting-reputation-9432378/): > [@](#): > > Some of his portraits—even those in which the model is clothed—might shock 2010 sensibilities, but by Victorian standards they were…well, rather conventional. Photographs of nude children sometimes appeared on postcards or birthday cards, and nude portraits—skillfully done—were praised as art studies, as they were in the work of Dodgson’s contemporary Julia Margaret Cameron. Victorians saw childhood as a state of grace; even nude photographs of children were considered pictures of innocence itself. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/55 "2022-04-15T14:30:53Z")
Could you imagine trying to make Blazing Saddles today? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/56 "2022-04-15T14:34:17Z")
I can imagine it, but the producer and director would have to be African American. Of course, then it wouldn’t be Mel Brooks, and it probably wouldn’t be as funny. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/57 "2022-04-15T14:40:23Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And how about corporal punishment by teachers? I actually went to a Catholic school and saw very little corporal punishment. Once Sister Swampfox (i.e. Francis Marion) threw a piece of chalk\* at either Steve Arneson or Henry Murtaugh. But that was the only act I witnessed. - She played first base on the novitiate softball team, so she could really throw. Also, I saw her later when I was in high school, and she’d quit being a nun. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/58 "2022-04-15T15:02:36Z")
Thought the movie “Gigi” was disgusting at the time. It’s about Leslie Caron getting the best price for her virginity. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/59 "2022-04-15T15:06:12Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Agree. I can’t remember ever hearing the song or reading the lyrics before @TriPolar linked to them. Reading those lyrics, I can see why some people find them creepy, but I don’t think they’re _inherently_ creepy; I think the creepiness is in the ear of the beholder, and that the song is from a more innocent time. As such, I think it’s a good example of something that “wouldn’t fly now.” The context of the song is the movie Gigi, showing the life of young girls groomed to be prostitutes. In that context the lyrics are most certainly creepy. Is it was a more innocent time when this kind of behavior wasn’t discussed in the main stream and people believed you could tell the creeps because they always dressed and talked in a creepy manner, not like wholesome Scout Masters and Priests. Television and movies were full of this kind of stuff until the subject of sexual abuse, grooming, pedophilia, and the like began to be discussed without censorship in the mainstream media. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825/60 "2022-04-15T15:08:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The context of the song is the movie Gigi, showing the life of young girls groomed to be prostitutes. In that context the lyrics are most certainly creepy I did not know that; and you’re right that that does make a difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/they-wouldnt-fly-now/962825.md?page=4)