# They're CHILDREN, for fuck's sake! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2001, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636 "2001-09-04T06:54:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/61 "2001-09-06T05:26:13Z")
One thing I noticed: In that Unionist website linked to earlier, they said they asked for “peaceful protest”. They condemned the violence sure enough but my question is: Why did they ask for protest at all? Why do they want to stop a group of children going to school? The Unionist leaders are being disingenuous here. On the one hand they condemn the violence but on the other hand they are advocating “protest” of some form. This is bound to filter down through the ranks as meaning “cause as much trouble as you can”. Given the volatile situation in Northern Ireland they MUST be aware of the need to choose your words carefully. When they command their followers to “protest” they KNOW whats coming. English involvement in Ireland first began about 1000 years ago. Northern Ireland is made up of 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster. At the moment the protestants are in the majority although this will change in the next few years because the catholic birthrate is higher (no contraception). The UK government has never made any suggestion that it will abandon Northern Ireland so the protestants have no real complaint. The Orange Order are the particular brand of protestants we are dealing with here. These people are ultra-hardline, they believe the pope is the anti-christ and catholics are worshippers of Satan. This is their website: [www.grandorange.org.uk](http://www.grandorange.org.uk) People who throw bombs at children are wankers, whatever their so-called “cause”. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/62 "2001-09-06T12:18:23Z")
xanakis… good to see you making sensical posts. Just one or two little corrections. The Normans were invited over to Ireland by McMurrough in 1169 or there abouts, so that is were the situation originated, but the current situation can be accredited (not the right choice of words, but YKWIM) to 1969 and the Civil Rights movement in Northern Ireland. Catholics were very much Second Class citizens then. Forgive me for being curt, but it really is too long to go into here. Feel free to read up on events in Ireland since then, and with an understanding of the current situation, read up on the earlier history. And now to **Squick** … While you may think that the parents are using their children as a tool to further their political cause, You’re wrong. They have every right to walk to school with their parents. They are completely in the right to walk down that road to school. If you feel that they are only doing this to further anger the Loyalist sub-human filth, well then I feel sorry for you. If you’re that cynical about peoples basic beliefs, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. I reserve the right to think you’re an idiot, and will call you on it as I see fit. You have no knowledge of the situation, so please don’t act like you do. You have made claims that you can’t back up. That may wash in the pit with some people, but it aint gonna wash with me. If you think you’re wrong, start a thread in GD, where facts count. I look forward to your reply. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/63 "2001-09-06T12:35:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > If you think you’re wrong, start a thread in GD, where facts count. Already there. [Ireland likes to have it’s children assaulted by terrorists](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=85522) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/64 "2001-09-06T15:17:40Z")
> [@](#): > > While you may think that the parents are using their children as a tool to further their political cause, You’re wrong. Have you gazed into these folks eyes and seen the inner workings of their souls or what ? You have nothing but a knee-jerk warm and fuzzy reaction to kids in trouble to back up that claim. That may be a good enough excuse for you to let fly with a torrent of hatred, but it doesn’t wash with me. Manipulating the credulous for political and monetary gain is a time honored pastime. There’s nothing cynical about that, it’s just a fact of human nature. You don’t have any trouble with Xanakis’ unflattering speculations on the motivations of the Unionists. Why do you think is so horribly cynical to consider the motivations of the parents and the Republicans ? Do you really think that’s unfair, or are you just mad at being deprived of an opportunity to self-righteously slam a bunch of people you don’t know and don’t like ? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/65 "2001-09-06T15:26:58Z")
Squink, please tell me why these parents should not walk their children to school down this route. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/66 "2001-09-06T15:46:24Z")
Have I looked into their souls? No. Am I Irish? Yes. I have spent all my life seeing this, and seeing more of the story than I’m sure you have. I have been to the Belfast, and I know a lot of people from both sides. You claim that I have kneejerk reactions? well, so do you. Have you looked deep into their souls and seen their political motivation? They want to walk their children to school. The moment the the Ardoyne Loyalists turned from shouting abuse at the parents and kids (which is very upsetting to begin with) to throwing stones, bottles and BOMBS for christs sake, I lost any respect for the Loyalist’s complaints. As Ruadh pointed out, There is an extremely high chance that if the parents decide to walk down the other “safe” route, they pass another Loyalist area and could very well end up in the same situation again. torrent of hatred? I’m simply showing my disrespect for Scumbags who throw bombs at children. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/67 "2001-09-06T16:46:31Z")
Squink, this thread is about fuckers terrorizing children. I couldn’t give one jot to what has happened in the past in relation to this issue. **THEY ARE DOING THIS TO KIDS** I’m Irish(born and still live in Dublin) and would generally side on the nationalist side but if this situation were reversed I’d be calling the Nationalists fuckers and not the Loyalists. When the Warington and Omagh bomdings happened for example I was disgusted and sickened to think that those attrosities had been done in the name of Ireland. My country is not about that and we live very happily down here, thank you very much. We’re all Irish on this side of the border so religion rarely if ever comes into play. There is no excuse, no justification for what is happening. You are either not getting the point or your just being willfully ignorant. It’s not about whether there is political games being played by the Catholics/protestants it’s about \*\* FUCKERS THROWING STUFF INCLUDING BOMBS AND HURLING HATEFILLED ABUSE AT 4/6 YEAR OLD CHILDREN\*\* If you can’t be human enough to come here and agree that no matter what came before, people should not be fucking with kids in this manner than I have to say there is a cluster fuck happening in your brain somewhere. The Great Debate that I linked to and you posted to is the place to put your points about if the parents should/should not be doing what they’re doing. This tread is not about that it’s about the mouth breathing fuckwits who are terrorizing children. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/68 "2001-09-06T17:43:32Z")
Fair enough, you can quote me on this: **No matter what came before, people should not be fucking with kids in this manner.** That does not make their actions incomprehensible as some in this thread would have us believe, nor does it validate a feeding frenzy of condemnation for the entire nationalist cause. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/69 "2001-09-06T20:57:31Z")
SQUINK – > [@](#): > > Geeze Jodi, do you read the papers ? Yesterday was bad, today was worse, and still these jokers refuse to go by the safe route that the school officials have told them to use. This has nothing at all to do with school kids, it’s just a bunch of ignorant asshole fuckwits looking for a fight. The childrens path to school merely provided a convenient excuse for both sides. So I take it your speculation on the motivations of the parents is just something you pulled out of your ass? Seeing as how I specifically asked you for a cite and you don’t have one. And anyone who can look at articles dealing with _bombs_ being thrown at _school kids_ and then blithely post “this has nothing to do with school kids” has his head so far up his ass the odds of eventual extraction are slim. Oh, and the “safe route” you’re talking about is apparently not all that “safe,” either, as RUADH explained in the Great Debates thread on this subject. It’s another “Protestant” street as well; there just hasn’t been any trouble on it (yet) because the kids haven’t been trying to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/70 "2001-09-06T21:20:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*That does not make their actions incomprehensible as some in this thread would have us believe \*\* Let’s see … I really dislike Catholics in my neighborhood. And I completely detest their political views, and their goals for my homeland. I know what I’ll do! I’ll throw a grenade into a group of 4- to 6-year old Catholic schoolgirls! I’ll scream at them and terrorize them while they try to get to their school! The only thing more incomprehensible than someone thinking like this is somebody else trying to justify it in the most remote way on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance. Numb-fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/71 "2001-09-06T22:51:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Let’s see … I really dislike Catholics in my neighborhood. And I completely detest their political views, and their goals for my homeland. There you go Milo, you’ve still got you head shoved way up your ass, but at least you were willing to admit that these assholes used some sort of thinking to justify their actions. Maybe with a few more years hard work you’ll be able to figure out the difference between “understanding someone’s behavior” and “justifying someone’s behavior”. Until then, feel free to carry on bouncing willy nilly from one atrocity to the next and condemning one side after the other without any hope of ever getting a clue as to how to stop the whole sad show. That’s the real price of ignorance here. Sometimes fighting it can be an unpleasant task. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/72 "2001-09-06T23:37:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*Fair enough, you can quote me on this: > **No matter what came before, people should not be fucking with kids in this manner.** > > That does not make their actions incomprehensible as some in this thread would have us believe, nor does it validate a feeding frenzy of condemnation for the entire nationalist cause. \*\* Where exactly IN THIS THREAD is there a “feeding frenzy” of condemnation for the entire nationalist cause? Go ahead…show me the feeding frenzy IN THIS THREAD for the condemnation of the entire nationalist cause…go ahead…I’m waiting… If you can’t do that, then I expect a retraction of said statement. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/73 "2001-09-07T09:17:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > Fair enough, you can quote me on this: > **No matter what came before, people should not be fucking with kids in this manner.** > > That does not make their actions incomprehensible as some in this thread would have us believe I accept that the Protestants/Loyalists may have grievances against their Catholic/Nationalist neighbors **BUT** I find their actions incomprehensible. **Squink** you have the same attitude as a lot of people up North for both sides, it’s also in the OP of the Great Debate. It’s the “YES, BUT” syndrome. Both side play this game all the time. They do some incomprehensible and when called on it they say “Yes, but …”. I find it incomprehensible that adults are throwing bricks, bottles and even bombs at kids and I couldn’t give a fuck if Hitler himself is standing beside them. I guarantee that if it where Catholics doing this, there would be a thread in the PIT about it where right thinking people would be railing on them. Now the question is, would you be in the thread asking why protestant parents are bringing the kids into the firing line and that the Catholics actions are vaguely justifiable or would you be condemning the Catholics for assaulting the kids? I think I already know the answer to that. I think you are here with a bias and will always try to justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/74 "2001-09-07T11:04:20Z")
And one more time > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Squink, please tell me why these parents should not walk their children to school down this route. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/75 "2001-09-07T11:13:26Z")
Gary, there’s more chance of getting Ian Paisley to sing “The Men Behind The Wire”. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/76 "2001-09-07T11:22:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Gary, there’s more chance of getting Ian Paisley to sing “The Men Behind The Wire”. \*\* 😃 Now there’s a pleasant image. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/77 "2001-09-08T00:26:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > **beagledave** the Scots are hardly germanic! They’re celtic themselves, with pictish thrown in. _\>sigh\<_ I knew I was going to get nailed on this. OK, there are _two kinds_ of Scots, lowland and highland (more specifically highland & island) The highlanders are, if you go back far enough, actually Irish (the languages have some overlap, enough to be mutally intelligable if you stick to basic communication) The lowlanders are predominantly English in origin, but north of the French invaders called “Normans” so they’re more Anglo-Saxon than Norman French. They do not and have not spoken Gaelic as a native tongue but rather English - Old English then “Old Scots”, an English dialect. The Picts predated everyone else in Scotland (as far as we know) but were largely displaced and/or exterminated by Irish and English invaders. The Scots-Irish/Orange Irish are mostly of lowland Scottish ancestory. The Highland Scots that were cleared were not as numerous and were either pushed farther into the highlands or out onto the islands. Therefore, they (oragne Irish) are more Germanic than Celtic. But let’s be honest - between rape and other manifestations of human nature by now everybody out there is related to everyone else at least a little. Although they’d rather die than admit that. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/78 "2001-09-08T02:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > **I’m Irish(born and still live in Dublin) and would generally side on the nationalist side but if this situation were reversed I’d be calling the Nationalists fuckers and not the Loyalists. When the Warington and Omagh bomdings happened for example I was disgusted and sickened to think that those attrosities had been done in the name of Ireland. My country is not about that and we live very happily down here, thank you very much. We’re all Irish on this side of the border so religion rarely if ever comes into play.** Pretty much sums it up - and I think a majority of inhabitants of Northern Ireland would have the same sentiments. Let’s not forget this fragile process towards peace is constantly disrupted by two minorities on either side. The majoriy just want one thing: for the violence to end, no matter what political resolution is found. Now, having said all that reasonable stuff, allow me to chime in with a hearty “Fuck You!” towards anyone who thinks (for lack of a better verb) that putting small children through crap like this is excusable. **It’s not. I don’t care if it’s about land, about religion, or about politics. Leave those who cannot defend themselves out of it.** [sub]And fuck William the Conqueror for sailing up the Thames and introducing Protestantism to the United Kingdom.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/79 "2001-09-08T19:48:38Z")
> [@](#): > > And fuck William the Conqueror for sailing up the Thames and introducing Protestantism to the United Kingdom. Henry VIII is spinning in his grave over this. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636/80 "2001-09-08T22:11:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > **The majoriy just want one thing: for the violence to end, no matter what political resolution is found.** Certainly the majority want the violence to end, but don’t understate the importance of the constitutional issue in Northerners’ minds. There are “neutral” political parties which aim to bring together Catholics and Protestants, unionists and nationalists, to keep the peace and to work toward solutions that will benefit all. Their combined vote rarely exceeds about 12%. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-children-for-fucks-sake/79636.md?page=5)