# They're coming for us ... what will you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507 "2018-07-08T02:51:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/1 "2018-07-08T02:51:53Z")
_First they came for the travelers and would-be immigrants from suspect countries …_ Immediately after assuming the presidency, Trump issued an order that he often characterized as a “Muslim ban” to restrict travel to the United States by people from certain Muslim-majority countries. After a couple of hiccups, he crafted a version of the ban that got the nod from the Supreme Court. > **[Trump’s Travel Ban Is Upheld by Supreme Court (Published 2018)](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/us/politics/supreme-court-trump-travel-ban.html)** > > In a 5-to-4 vote, the Supreme Court ruled that President Trump acted lawfully in imposing limits on travel from several predominantly Muslim countries. > [@](#): > > In a 5-to-4 vote, the court’s conservatives said that the president’s power to secure the country’s borders, delegated by Congress over decades of immigration lawmaking, was not undermined by Mr. Trump’s history of incendiary statements about the dangers he said Muslims pose to the United States. > > Writing for the majority, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. said that Mr. Trump had ample statutory authority to make national security judgments in the realm of immigration. And the chief justice rejected a constitutional challenge to Mr. Trump’s third executive order on the matter, issued in September as a proclamation. Justice Anthony Kennedy basically threw up his hands at the idea that the Supreme Court could put a halt to blatant discrimination based on baseless claims of national security justifications. And then he retired, making room for a fifth hard-right justice. _Then they expressed preference for white European immigrants only …_ > **[Trump derides protections for immigrants from ‘shithole’ countries](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-attacks-protections-for-immigrants-from-shithole-countries-in-oval-office-meeting/2018/01/11/bfc0725c-f711-11e7-91af-31ac729add94_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bedf5d557bf4)** > > The president’s comments on immigrants from El Salvador, Haiti and other nations surprised lawmakers. Trump expressed his disgust for immigrants from “shithole countries,” meaning non-white countries. _Then they came for the refugees and asylum-seekers with children …_ > **[Trump administration family separation policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_separation_policy)** > > The United States family separation policy under the Trump administration was presented to the public as a "zero tolerance" approach intended to deter illegal immigration and to encourage tougher legislation. In some cases, families following the legal procedure to apply for asylum at official border crossings were also separated. It was officially adopted across the entire US–Mexico border from April 2018 until June 2018. Under the policy, federal authorities separated children and infants... After a public uproar, the administration “rescinded” the policy without actually any practical plan to reunite families. And the new plan was to keep entire families seeking asylum in detention. _Then they came for people with valid visas seeking a change of status …_ > **[A quiet change in US policy threatens immigrants who apply for a change in...](https://qz.com/1323136/a-uscis-immigration-policy-change-threatens-non-citizens-with-deportation-if-they-lose-status)** > > Take Jack, a foreign student who files for an extension of his visa. Or Maria, who's married to a US citizen. The administration is seeking any excuse to deport people in the country legally who are applying for a change of status to their visas. _Then they came for foreign citizens serving in the military who want U.S. citizenship …_ > **[U.S. Army Reportedly Discharging Immigrants Who Enlisted With Promises Of...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/us-army-discharging-immigrants-report_n_5b3ed376e4b09e4a8b2b6c58)** > > About 10,000 people now serve under a program meant to fast-track U.S. citizenship for military duty. The U.S. has a long-standing policy to expedite citizenship for foreigners who serve in our military. The administration has decided just to discharge them rather than let them complete their service and get their citizenship. _Then they came for naturalized citizens …_ > **[Surely the Trump Administration Will Follow All the Rules When Stripping...](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a22061884/denaturalization-task-force-trump-citizenship/)** > > The new denaturalization task force was last seen during the Red Scare. The administration is combing immigration files to find any reason to strip naturalized citizens of their citizenship and deport them. Meanwhile, almost no one with any power to do anything about all this—namely the Republican majorities in Congress—have taken any significant steps to halt this steady march towards an American Apartheid, a country reversing its 70-year trend towards more freedom, more equality, more international cooperation. Some Republicans fear a backlash from the far right. Some Republicans are content to get their right-wing Supreme Court justices, their tax cuts for the rich, their destruction of universal medical coverage, etc. _They’re coming for more of us, step by step …_ At first they were criminals, next they were would-be immigrants who don’t have any legal entitlement to come to the U.S. … Is there any reason to believe they’re going to find a rational or logical or reasonable stopping point? Meanwhile, Republicans in states around the country are solidifying systems to preserve their lock on power in the face of declining majority votes, by stopping their opponents from voting, or ensuring that their votes won’t make a difference. Of course, they argue, nothing in the Constitution says we _can’t_ do it … a permanent majority held by a minority of the population … Will this march be halted? By whom? How? When? What will be the long-term consequences? How many lives will be ruined? What are _you_ going to do about it? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/2 "2018-07-08T05:07:57Z")
Portland, OR [shut down their local ICE office](http://inthesetimes.com/article/21248/how-portland-occupiers-shut-down-ice) for ten days … ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/3 "2018-07-08T07:02:14Z")
I’m still waiting for them to come for the socialists. When’s that? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/4 "2018-07-08T07:11:45Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I’m still waiting for them to come for the socialists. When’s that? What socialists? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/5 "2018-07-08T07:43:38Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > What socialists? > Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk All of them? OP is riffing on Niemöller, because, you know, Trump’s Hitler. I see no reason why he would skip the socialists, given that’s what Hitler went after first, and Trump is a big time capitalist. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/6 "2018-07-08T09:41:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Justice Anthony Kennedy basically threw up his hands at the idea that the Supreme Court could put a halt to blatant discrimination based on baseless claims of national security justifications. Cite? And there are plenty of Islamic countries that are not on the banned list. > [@](#): > > Trump expressed his disgust for immigrants from “shithole countries,” meaning non-white countries. There are white shithole countries: Venezuela, Columbia, Mexico, Libya… > [@](#): > > _Then they came for the refugees and asylum-seekers with children …_ > > [Trump administration family separation policy - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_separation_policy) Wasn’t that an Obama policy? You know, his 2015 Family Case Management Program? > [@](#): > > After a public uproar… Heaven forfend that the President actually listen to the public. > [@](#): > > _Then they came for people with valid visas seeking a change of status …_ > > [A USCIS immigration policy change threatens non-citizens with deportation if they lose status](https://qz.com/1323136/a-uscis-immigration-policy-change-threatens-non-citizens-with-deportation-if-they-lose-status/) And your problem is? Of the examples given in the article, one is cock-up and the others are being firm but fair. > [@](#): > > _Then they came for foreign citizens serving in the military who want U.S. citizenship …_ > > [U.S. Army Reportedly Discharging Immigrants Who Enlisted With Promises Of Citizenship | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-army-discharging-immigrants-report_us_5b3ed376e4b09e4a8b2b6c58) > > The U.S. has a long-standing policy to expedite citizenship for foreigners who serve in our military. The administration has decided just to discharge them rather than let them complete their service and get their citizenship. Now at last you have something worthy of complaint and I fully agree. > [@](#): > > _Then they came for naturalized citizens …_ > > [Trump Administration's Denaturalization Task Force Is Ripe for Abuse](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a22061884/denaturalization-task-force-trump-citizenship/) > > The administration is combing immigration files to find any reason to strip naturalized citizens of their citizenship and deport them. Well yes: if you lied during the process you’ve committed fraud and deserve to have your citizenship revoked. Just like lying on your job resume or in your interview. I’m not seeing a problem here. > [@Linked article](#): > > But last month, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services started a task force to review cases where people may have lied in order to get citizenship. > [@](#): > > What are _you_ going to do about it? I’m going to stop people like you making Trump look good. Out of seven complaints you have only one that seems justified. The best weapon against Trump is the truth. Once you stray from the truth you legitimise his lies. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/7 "2018-07-08T10:44:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Cite? And there are plenty of Islamic countries that are not on the banned list. When the President said he was planning a Muslim ban, and then one of his senior advisors (Giuliani) said publicly they were trying to find a way to institute a Muslim ban that would be legal, it’s entirely reasonable to believe that the policy is intended as a “legal” Muslim ban. > [@](#): > > There are white shithole countries: Venezuela, Columbia, Mexico, Libya… Trump didn’t mention those. He specifically mentioned Haiti, El Salvador, and African countries as “shithole” countries, and expressed a preference for Nordic countries. Considering the many, many other times in which he’s said racist things, there’s no reason to give him any benefit of the doubt here. > [@](#): > > Wasn’t that an Obama policy? You know, his 2015 Family Case Management Program? No, deliberately and purposefully separating families for deterrent purposes was a brand new Trump policy. > [@](#): > > And your problem is? Of the examples given in the article, one is cock-up and the others are being firm but fair. Considering the many, many other examples of racist and anti-immigrant policies and statements by Trump, it’s entirely reasonable to see this as a trend of Trump continuing to try to expel immigrants. > [@](#): > > Well yes: if you lied during the process you’ve committed fraud and deserve to have your citizenship revoked. Just like lying on your job resume or in your interview. I’m not seeing a problem here. When it’s the first time such a task force has been put into place since the McCarthy era, and there’s this long, long list of Trump statements and policies that can be reasonably interpreted as racist and anti-immigrant, then it’s entirely reasonable to see this with alarm and as a continuation of this trend. > [@](#): > > I’m going to stop people like you making Trump look good. Out of seven complaints you have only one that seems justified. The best weapon against Trump is the truth. Once you stray from the truth you legitimise his lies. Wrong. You’re wrong on the facts and you’re wrong on your interpretations. Nothing in the OP’s list was factually incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/8 "2018-07-08T11:46:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Meanwhile, almost no one with any power to do anything about all this—namely the Republican majorities in Congress—have taken any significant steps to halt this steady march towards an American Apartheid, a country reversing its 70-year trend towards more freedom, more equality, more international cooperation. > > Some Republicans fear a backlash from the far right. Some Republicans are content to get their right-wing Supreme Court justices, their tax cuts for the rich, their destruction of universal medical coverage, etc. > > _They’re coming for more of us, step by step …_ > > At first they were criminals, next they were would-be immigrants who don’t have any legal entitlement to come to the U.S. … Is there any reason to believe they’re going to find a rational or logical or reasonable stopping point? > > Meanwhile, Republicans in states around the country are solidifying systems to preserve their lock on power in the face of declining majority votes, by stopping their opponents from voting, or ensuring that their votes won’t make a difference. Of course, they argue, nothing in the Constitution says we _can’t_ do it … a permanent majority held by a minority of the population … > > Will this march be halted? By whom? How? When? What will be the long-term consequences? How many lives will be ruined? What are _you_ going to do about it? What I plan to do is vote in November. In my state, and my district, it won’t matter much, as we’re Red down here. But voting is what needs to happen, and we need a Democrat majority in at least one house of congress, so that checks and balances actually occur. This is what George Will recently wrote about, and which has its own thread. If we’re going to stop this, it has to be at the ballot box. We know the Pub congress will let Trump do almost whatever he wants. They won’t even buck against him on his ridiculous Trade War with China and the EU and Canada. The Democrats were out-worked by Republicans from 2008 through 2016, and the result is a country where the majority of voters are Democrats who have minority representation in all areas of our government, national, state and local. I’m hoping that the election of Trump woke up enough people on the Dem side (and independents and even moderate ex-Pubs like myself), so that 2018 represents a turning-point in the Trump presidency. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/9 "2018-07-08T13:40:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > … Of course, they argue, nothing in the Constitution says we _can’t_ do it … a permanent majority held by a minority of the population … Help me remember, which side got more votes in House races in 2016? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/10 "2018-07-08T13:45:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > There are white shithole countries: Venezuela, Columbia, Mexico, Libya… It appears to have escaped your notice that a large majority of people in those countries are brown. The majority of Latin Americans are mestizo (mixture of indigenous and European), with large numbers of people of mainly indigenous and African descent. And Libyans may be Caucasian, but that does not make them white. (And it’s Col **o** bia, by the way.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/11 "2018-07-08T13:47:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > … (And it’s Col **o** bia, by the way.) Irony abounds ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/12 "2018-07-08T14:23:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Well yes: if you lied during the process you’ve committed fraud and deserve to have your citizenship revoked. Just like lying on your job resume or in your interview. I’m not seeing a problem here. The problem is that most people expect Trump’s task force to be a shitshow. Basically, when it comes to integrity, I personally place it in about the same realm as his “task force” on voter fraud. There’s a purpose here, and it’s not simply “make sure that immigration laws are being followed correctly”. Why have this to begin with? The last time something like this existed was during the McCarthy era - again, _not a good look_, and with clear ulterior motives. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/13 "2018-07-08T14:25:08Z")
> [@gtyj](#): > > The Democrats were out-worked by Republicans from 2008 through 2016, The word you’re looking for is unemployed. They were unemployed from 2008 to 2016. When Trump arrived he spent half as much money as HRC in the election. He pulled Black and Hispanic votes from her and they were rewarded for their voting efforts. Unemployment in the Black and Hispanic community is at a record low. It’s the economy stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/14 "2018-07-08T14:29:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Irony abounds Gaudere strikes again. But I do know how to spell it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/15 "2018-07-08T14:36:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It appears to have escaped your notice that a large majority of people in those countries are brown. Yes, it escaped our notice. As in, nobody cares. What we care about is flooding our country with cheap labor because it undercuts our own citizens. Instead of giving handouts that keep people poor we want to give them jobs. What a concept. Imagine getting tax money from someone with a new job and using that money to rebuild infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/16 "2018-07-08T14:43:41Z")
Ok, this is getting silly. Yes, Trump is an awful president and if he really had carte blanche we’d be in trouble but he doesn’t. Yes, he finally got a “Muslim ban” but it took him multiple tries to get it past SCOTUS and it’s a relatively weak ban (note: I don’t support the ban). He didn’t have the political strength to outright kill Obamacare. If Trump jails political opponents without charges I’ll start worrying. If the GOP picks up additional Senators or Congressmen/women in the mid-terms I might start worrying. Until then this is the usual opposition caterwauling. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/17 "2018-07-08T15:00:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The word you’re looking for is unemployed. They were unemployed from 2008 to 2016. When Trump arrived he spent half as much money as HRC in the election. **He pulled Black and Hispanic votes from her and they were rewarded for their voting efforts. Unemployment in the Black and Hispanic community is at a record low.** > > It’s the economy stupid. I’ve bolded two statements here. I think you think there’s some connection between them. Care to elucidate that a little bit? How did electing Trump lead to a good economy? (If you don’t think that, my bad.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/18 "2018-07-08T15:56:41Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Gaudere strikes again. But I do know how to spell it. 🙂 I know, it was just comical. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/19 "2018-07-08T17:42:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The word you’re looking for is unemployed. They were unemployed from 2008 to 2016. When Trump arrived he spent half as much money as HRC in the election. He pulled Black and Hispanic votes from her and they were rewarded for their voting efforts. Unemployment in the Black and Hispanic community is at a record low. > > It’s the economy stupid. Really? The economy was in good shape by 2016. It was a long recovery, but we had recovered before the election. And since the election, gdp growth, job growth, and wage growth have been similar to prior to the election. I don’t buy the economy as a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507/20 "2018-07-08T19:18:07Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > There are white shithole countries: Venezuela, Columbia, Mexico, Libya… Columbia isn’t a country but a university; the three countries you name aren’t considered white by US standards. If you’re going to insist in being more Trumpista than the Trumpistas, at least get your vocabulary right. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-us-what-will-you-do/817507.md?page=2)