# They're coming for your Plan-B **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711 "2012-02-23T06:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/61 "2012-02-23T17:23:57Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > This is not the same thing. A pharmacist is not refusing to, in this case, serve women by not stocking Plan-B. They are refusing to provide a certain product. The fact that the product they choose to not stock would usually be requested by women does not equate to the pharmacy refusing to serve women. “We’re not making it illegal to vote in this state if you’re black; we’re saying people of ALL races whose grandfathers couldn’t vote before 1865 cannot vote!” Look, I support property rights, so as much as I’m pro-birth control and not part of the anti-woman lunacy cult known as the Republican Party, I also support the rights of pharmacies to choose to not stock certain medications, even if that is discriminatory in effect. But my core political orientation is an intolerance of bullshit. Saying that contraceptives are a gender-neutral medication is bullshit, just as much as saying that the government forcing pharmacists to violate their religious beliefs is not even a concern is also bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/62 "2012-02-23T17:48:44Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > [The state] can’t force private citizens to violate their religious beliefs to fulfill the state’s interest. Damn I’m glad you said that, because I tell ya, the Church of Black People Suck has been waiting for just such a solid guiding principle. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/63 "2012-02-23T17:57:26Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > “We’re not making it illegal to vote in this state if you’re black; we’re saying people of ALL races whose grandfathers couldn’t vote before 1865 cannot vote!” The difference there is that the goal of your quote is to prevent blacks from voting. It’s not to prevent voting itself, but only blacks. The race part is key. On the other hand, the goal of the pharmacy thing is to stop Plan-B from being distributed. The fact that this only affects women’s pregnancies (not simply “women”, btw) is tangential to the effort, despite what **Der Trihs** alleges. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/64 "2012-02-23T18:01:19Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > “We’re not making it illegal to vote in this state if you’re black; we’re saying people of ALL races whose grandfathers couldn’t vote before 1865 cannot vote!” > > Look, I support property rights, so as much as I’m pro-birth control and not part of the anti-woman lunacy cult known as the Republican Party, I also support the rights of pharmacies to choose to not stock certain medications, even if that is discriminatory in effect. But my core political orientation is an intolerance of bullshit. Saying that contraceptives are a gender-neutral medication is bullshit, just as much as saying that the government forcing pharmacists to violate their religious beliefs is not even a concern is also bullshit. The problem is that such a policy (not stocking Plan-B) does not stop women from shopping at the pharmacy, as evidenced by the probable fact that a substantial portion of their clientele are women. Not stocking Plan-B affects some women, but I fail to see how not catering to the wants of some women (and probably men) constitutes some form of discrimination against women in general. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/65 "2012-02-23T18:32:33Z")
I think there is an easy solution. If you run a pharmacy and want to use your personal philosophy to choose what to stock then you should be proud enough to say so, in big letters on your front door. Every customer, coming through your front door, deserves to know you made this choice, when choosing whether or not to frequent your business. If you want to make this issue a platform for your political stand then you should be proud enough, of that choice, to publish it on your front door. I humbly submit this issue would then resolve itself. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/66 "2012-02-23T18:36:43Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > The difference there is that the goal of your quote is to prevent blacks from voting. It’s not to prevent voting itself, but only blacks. The race part is key. On the other hand, the goal of the pharmacy thing is to stop Plan-B from being distributed. The fact that this only affects women’s pregnancies (not simply “women”, btw) is tangential to the effort, despite what **Der Trihs** alleges. No, the fact that Plan B is a medication which allows women to choose whether or not to become pregnant is in no way “tangential;” it’s the core of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/67 "2012-02-23T18:39:01Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I think there is an easy solution. If you run a pharmacy and want to use your personal philosophy to choose what to stock then you should be proud enough to say so, in big letters on your front door. > > Every customer, coming through your front door, deserves to know you made this choice, when choosing whether or not to frequent your business. If you want to make this issue a platform for your political stand then you should be proud enough, of that choice, to publish it on your front door. > > I humbly submit this issue would then resolve itself. Certainly I would support such a rule. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/68 "2012-02-23T18:42:40Z")
Is the Plan B drug especially dangerous? Just sell it over the counter, already. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/69 "2012-02-23T18:56:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is the Plan B drug especially dangerous? Just sell it over the counter, already. This makes a lot of sense. Supermarkets, 7-11s, whatever, could sell it. The one problem I can see is religiously motivated people going into the stores and stealing, sabotaging, or simply buying up, what’s on the shelf. Maybe it could be over the counter, but under the counter. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/70 "2012-02-23T18:58:39Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I think there is an easy solution. If you run a pharmacy and want to use your personal philosophy to choose what to stock then you should be proud enough to say so, in big letters on your front door. > > Every customer, coming through your front door, deserves to know you made this choice, when choosing whether or not to frequent your business. If you want to make this issue a platform for your political stand then you should be proud enough, of that choice, to publish it on your front door. > > I humbly submit this issue would then resolve itself. How to pharmacies actually work, though? I mean, generally, you don’t go to a pharmacist in a pharmacy, you go to a pharmacist in CVS or Walgreens or something. Are they independent practitioners renting floor space, are they company owned, is CVS a franchise… lots of funny questions here in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/71 "2012-02-23T19:00:35Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Do you think businesses should also not have to serve customers they don’t want to serve? > > For example, do you think hotels or restaurants should have the right to refuse to allow blacks? If the blacks in question are insisting on Busch beer and the place only stocks Bud, yes. But that would also include whites who want Busch, so there’s no discrimination involved. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/72 "2012-02-23T19:07:30Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > This makes a lot of sense. Supermarkets, 7-11s, whatever, could sell it. > > The one problem I can see is religiously motivated people going into the stores and stealing, sabotaging, or simply buying up, what’s on the shelf. > > Maybe it could be over the counter, but under the counter. Well, I’m okay with tamper-proof packaging and putting it behind the counter like condoms or cigarettes - I was just wondering why this is a controlled substance in the first place. Is it even as dangerous as, say, Tylenol? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/73 "2012-02-23T19:08:05Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > How to pharmacies actually work, though? I mean, generally, you don’t go to a pharmacist in a pharmacy, you go to a pharmacist in CVS or Walgreens or something. Are they independent practitioners renting floor space, are they company owned, is CVS a franchise… lots of funny questions here in this regard. There are plenty of independent drug stores with their own pharmacy and I’ve seen very small pharmacies tucked into a corner of a supermarket. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/74 "2012-02-23T19:09:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is the Plan B drug especially dangerous? Just sell it over the counter, already. Already sold OTC in Europe and several US states, magically no negative side effects ever reported, just fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions, etc… not only are Republicans against this, Obama’s own HHS secretary nixed an FDA recommendation to lower the nationwide age for OTC access to 16. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/75 "2012-02-23T19:10:21Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Do you think businesses should also not have to serve customers they don’t want to serve? > > For example, do you think hotels or restaurants should have the right to refuse to allow blacks? I think you’re mixing your analogies. This would be as if the hotel didn’t carry porn on pay per view even if a lot of people wanted it. Its not like they are selling Plan-B to married women and denying it to single women. They don’t carry it for anyone. The analogy to the contraception requirement would be more appropriate if money wasn’t so damn fungible. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/76 "2012-02-23T19:26:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Of course it is, that’s why they do it. Especially when they take the prescription from the women, _then_ announce they won’t give her what’s on the prescription or hand the prescription back to her so she can go elsewhere. > > As for me, I think that they should be forced to supply what women need regardless of their bigotry, and completely banned from all aspects of the medical industry for life if they refuse. Taking and refusing to return a prescription is illegal unless it is a controlled substance and the pharmacist has confirmed with the prescribing physician that the prescription is fake. The pharmacist can also refuse to fill a prescription for any controlled substance if she cannot confirm that prescription with the prescribing physician but she CANNOT take and keep a prescription for an over the counter morning after pill. As for me, I think that your mentality is a step or two away from forcing an obstetrician who only performs D&E for miscarriages and medical issues to perform elective abortions as well. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/77 "2012-02-23T19:38:12Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Nice Strawman I think you mean slippery slope. > [@Jragon](#): > > Are pharmacies forced to stock life saving items (i.e. anti-venoms, inhalers + asthma steroids)? If not, I can’t really get behind forcing them to carry a Plan-B, but not things that are legitimately time sensitive to saving lives. If they are forced to have those items, then maaaaaybe, but there’s still something off about it to me. The only restriction that I have seen or heard of (and this may be a state thing rather thana federal thing) is that if you do not carry Plan B or you run out of Plan B, you must prominently display this fact on your pharmacy counter so that someone does not ask for it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/78 "2012-02-23T19:41:04Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > Pro-zygote, pro-fetus forces win again. Too bad after the female is born she won’t have any help from these fucks, so “pro-life” is not appropriate. They’re not really pro-life (or anti-choice) so much as they are anti-abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/79 "2012-02-23T19:44:00Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > I agree with this, with one minor little bit of reservation. Place all drugs OTC. You know some of these drugs can kill you if taken in the wrong combinations or dosages, right? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711/80 "2012-02-23T19:48:04Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > Let’s use the vaginal ultrasound “logic.” > > If they don’t want to supply Plan-B, they don’t have to be a pharmacist. If you find yourself using faulty logic to make your argument, then perhaps you are making the wrong argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-coming-for-your-plan-b/613711.md?page=5)