# They're illegal aliens; stop making up other names for them. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468 "2013-03-20T17:16:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/261 "2013-03-28T19:56:01Z")
> [@](#): > > sarcasm > noun irony, satire, cynicism, contempt, ridicule, bitterness, scorn, sneering, mockery, venom, derision, vitriol, mordancy, causticness His voice was heavy with sarcasm. > > Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002 Here is post 30: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote: > > Originally Posted by Machine Elf > > Not a law of nature, but a law of man. > [@Marley23](#): > > Exactly. So we’re allowed to argue over the most appropriate term from a legal or ethical perspective. Since the term “alien” is itself made up, saying “stop making up other names” is stupid. Where in this post do you say that you are being sarcastic in it or Post 10. Where you again agree “exactly” with the disgusting OP. > [@](#): > > woodstockbirdybird > > It read exactly like sarcasm to me and every other poster in this thread who isn’t an utter moron (i.e., you). Your woeful inability to grasp even an 8th grade-level concept of how sarcasm is deployed makes you appear more stupid with each post. Sometimes you need to STFU and listen when everybody else in the room tells you you’ve got it ass-backwards. It isn’t a majority vote on whether it is sarcastic and/or racist as I read it. Or an unanimous minus one vote. It’s sneeringly racist. You and others have said that’s okay if it is sarcastic, which you argue it is. No, it isn’t, even if you grant that it is sarcastic, it is still racist. Sarcasm and racism are not mutually exclusive. Even if you accept that it is sarcastic (which I do not), it is still drippingly racist. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/262 "2013-03-28T19:59:00Z")
Well, sure, because you’re dumb as a lump of shit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/263 "2013-03-28T19:59:16Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > :dubious: > > You are absolutely convinced that **Marley23** genuinely believes > > How in the holy fuck could you see a written statement like that and think that he _really_ believes it? How could you possibly believe it was anything _but_ sarcasm? What next? You were being sarcastic too? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/264 "2013-03-28T20:00:28Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Here is post 30: > > Where in this post do you say that you are being sarcastic in it or Post 10. Where you again agree “exactly” with the disgusting OP. > > It isn’t a majority vote on whether it is sarcastic and/or racist as I read it. Or an unanimous minus one vote. It’s sneeringly racist. You and others have said that’s okay if it is sarcastic, which you argue it is. No, it isn’t, even if you grant that it is sarcastic, it is still racist. Sarcasm and racism are not mutually exclusive. Even if you accept that it is sarcastic (which I do not), it is still drippingly racist. This is incredible and almost unprecedented in its lack of comprehension. Are you some kind of left-wing nutjob with an autism spectrum disorder? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/265 "2013-03-28T20:06:14Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > This is incredible and almost unprecedented in its lack of comprehension. Are you some kind of left-wing nutjob with an autism spectrum disorder? Well, I’m undoubtedly what now days passes for left-wing. My mother never had me tested for autism spectrum disorders. Or are you being sarcastic too? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/266 "2013-03-28T20:12:32Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Where in this post do you say that you are being sarcastic in it or Post 10. I wasn’t being sarcastic in post 30. In post 30, I said non-sarcastically what I said sarcastically in post 10. And I didn’t explain that I was being sarcastic because the OP understood it, which he has now returned to confirm. As far as I can tell, everyone who read the post understood it except you. > [@](#): > > It’s sneeringly racist. It’s not racist. I did quote someone else using the words “illegal aliens,” but even if I were using the term with a straight face, that wouldn’t be sufficient to establish racism anyway. Since we’ve established that you can’t understand sarcasm, this makes me wonder if you understand what racism actually looks like. > [@](#): > > You and others have said that’s okay if it is sarcastic, which you argue it is. No, it isn’t, even if you grant that it is sarcastic, it is still racist. The argument is not ‘racism is OK if it’s sarcastic.’ The argument is that it’s not racist at all because no racist sentiment was expressed, and the words I wrote in the post weren’t intended to be taken literally. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/267 "2013-03-28T20:14:17Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Well, I’m undoubtedly what now days passes for left-wing. My mother never had me tested for autism spectrum disorders. Or are you being sarcastic too? No, I promise you I wasn’t at all. Your lack of comprehension in simple interactions is genuinely odd even by message board standards. I am beginning to think it is not your fault though because it is so unusual. It is like arguing with a color-blind person over what a painting really looks like while they keep grabbing the dictionary to show you that they know perfectly well what red and green are. In reality, they just lack the innate tools to comprehend that they can’t see things that are obvious to other people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/268 "2013-03-28T20:30:18Z")
I think that you guys think it is okay to say racist shit in a sarcastic tone of voice. I see posts 10 and 30 as agreeing with Machine Elf’s hugely outrageous OP. I can imagine someone in person sneering post 10 and later claiming they didn’t mean it because it was sarcastic, but not post 30. But post 10 doesn’t read that way. It reads like a hyped up version of post 30. But it would still come off as hugely asshole racist. The only thing different from post 10 to post 30 in substance was shifting ground to human laws from God’s laws. You just don’t say shit like that. A racist joke is racist. A racist sarcastic statement is racist. Is the OP supposed to be sarcastic too? I don’t see it. The OP by a poster I am unfamiliar with comes in and argues a right wing theme, and the f’n board administrator agrees with it and one-ups him. It all looks to me like teenagers sitting in a basement talking racist shit and claiming it was all a joke when called on it. It isn’t funny. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/269 "2013-03-28T21:12:06Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I think that you guys think it is okay to say racist shit in a sarcastic tone of voice. The post doesn’t say anything racist in the first place. I’m hesitant to even start arguing that with you because I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere on account of the whole stupidity thing, but I’m not going to let you treat it as a given that I said anything racist. I emphatically did not. As far as the broader issue goes: there is no “racist shit” if the message is not racist. > [@](#): > > I see posts 10 and 30 as agreeing with Machine Elf’s hugely outrageous OP. You’re going to have to tell me how. The thread title is "they’re illegal aliens; stop making up other names for them. In post 30 I say “Since the term “alien” is itself made up, saying “stop making up other names” is stupid.” > [@](#): > > Is the OP supposed to be sarcastic too? I don’t see it. I don’t think so. _That’s why I disagreed with him._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/270 "2013-03-28T21:19:38Z")
No dude, you agreed with him. Sarcastically according to you and others: The OP is right… Exactly. That isn’t disagreeing, that is agreeing. Twice. The face value of your words, if words mean anything, is agreeing. You say it is sarcastic and this is opposite thread, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/271 "2013-03-28T21:27:59Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No dude, you agreed with him. No, I didn’t. I _said_ I agreed with him and used a rhetorical device (sarcasm) to explain why I thought he was wrong. The words were not intended to be taken at face value, which is why about a dozen people have told you you’ve misunderstood them and have made an ass of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/272 "2013-03-28T21:32:34Z")
* * * ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/273 "2013-03-28T21:42:24Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No dude, you agreed with him. Sarcastically according to you and others: > > The OP is right… > > Exactly. > > That isn’t disagreeing, that is agreeing. Twice. The face value of your words, if words mean anything, is agreeing. You say it is sarcastic and this is opposite thread, or whatever. Seriously, get checked for autism. Your shit’s all fucked up here. You’re attacking people who are on your side (to a degree, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/274 "2013-03-28T21:46:50Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Had you not said “I agree with the OP”, but rather something like: “The OP’s thorough analysis of the etymology of the various appellations for the designation of people with immigration situations that are less than ideal is penetrating as far as it goes but needs more work” This is almost as stupid as you are. This melt down is more entertaining than TLCs. ETA: Just so we’re clear (almost forgot who I was talking to), that was not sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/275 "2013-03-28T21:46:55Z")
I think this thread has flown past parody and is degenerating into farce. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/276 "2013-03-28T21:48:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I think this thread has flown past parody and is degenerating into farce. This is at the level of believing an Onion article. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/277 "2013-03-29T00:33:04Z")
Second stone - I have no dog in this fight… But in my opinion, you have completely misunderstood Marley. Look, as a public defender, I am no stranger to ridiculous arguments, and can make them with the straightest face. “Your Honor, while Mr. Jones concedes this is his fifth probation violation…” You get the point. But we have one judge with really bushy eyebrows. And the more dubious he is of your argument, the tighter knit they get. When he gets to unibrow territory, you have derailed. Second Stone - you are officially in unibrow territory. There is no shame in misunderstanding a post. Obstinately refusing to hear what others are telling you is absurd. We have no agenda here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/278 "2013-03-29T01:19:26Z")
Oh, I’ve heard. But I am not obliged to agree. I see the argument and why people make it. But I don’t buy it. Sarcasm and racism are not mutually exclusive. [John Terry's remarks were 'very hurtful', Anton Ferdinand tells court | John Terry | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/09/john-terry-anton-ferdinand-court) Marley is nasty and a racist. He is simply adding that he is sarcastic, and that makes it somehow not real. Nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/279 "2013-03-29T01:31:44Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Sarcasm and racism are not mutually exclusive. You’re absolutely right. Therefore, Marley is a racist. (That was sarcastic, by the way.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/280 "2013-03-29T01:37:34Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > You’re absolutely right. Therefore, Marley is a racist. (That was sarcastic, by the way.) Which part were you being sarcastic about? That they are not mutually exclusive, or that Marley is a racist? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=15)