# They're illegal aliens; stop making up other names for them. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468 "2013-03-20T17:16:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/41 "2013-03-20T20:48:44Z")
I think we should be using the term “illegal alien” instead of a “undocumented immigrant” or some such. Just like I think we should use the term “slave” instead of “forced laborer”. Euphemisms hide the ugly truth and let people put the severity of the problem out of mind. And, because terms like “undocumented immigrant” downplay the problem, the status quo gets perpetuated. And the status quo is not acceptable. The whole immigration paradigm needs to change–those doing (or wanting to do) honest work need to have a way to be legally protected and accountable. Euphemisms make that harder. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/42 "2013-03-20T20:49:59Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > There are two reasons I think it’s erroneous to use more palatable words: > > 1. It weakens the debate by looking like one is using doublespeak. > 2. It potentially reduces the focus on what needs to be done. Undocumented immigrants (or whatever one wants to call them) _are_ here illegally. The fix is not to document them but to remove the laws that make them illegal. > > They are here illegally and they’re here to work. Be strong and not afraid to call them “illegal workers” and let’s get the law(s) changed. 🙂 And while I was typing, **Deeg** has expressed my feelings quite well. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/43 "2013-03-20T21:00:59Z")
\*Do \*people call them “undocumented workers” in a context other than talking about known workers, such as “that factory has a lot of undocumented workers”? I don’t recall hearing it. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/44 "2013-03-20T21:07:42Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > And yet, amazingly, the annual quotas for legal immigration never go unfilled. Clearly the difficulty and expense of filing the required forms is not the problem. Well, not everybody can win legal status by fucking a US citizen! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/45 "2013-03-20T21:10:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Deeg View Post > There are two reasons I think it’s erroneous to use more palatable words: > > [snip] > > 1. It potentially reduces the focus on what needs to be done. Undocumented immigrants (or whatever one wants to call them) _are_ here illegally. The fix is not to document them but to remove the laws that make them illegal. I venture to guess that most people who think this is a problem don’t view the solution as changing the laws that make them illegal. I think most would view the solution as getting these people out of “our” country and keeping others like them out as well. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/46 "2013-03-20T21:12:02Z")
We say \*citizenship challenged \*now. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/47 "2013-03-20T21:12:11Z")
One weird thing is you do occasionally get undocumented workers who are in the US legally either as citizens or legal immigrants. It’s usually in the context of getting under the table cash payments for mostly cash businesses. The IRS is usually pretty interested in both employers and employees skipping out taxes. ---
**Author:** ![EMCEE\_98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@EMCEE\_98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EMCEE_98)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/48 "2013-03-20T21:14:47Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That makes no sense. Explain why that makes no sense. If you are not 100% Native American, you are an “illegal alien.” ---
**Author:** ![EMCEE\_98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@EMCEE\_98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EMCEE_98)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/49 "2013-03-20T21:15:51Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Not quite. Most of us are, in fact, “anchor babies.” Ha, yeah 😃 ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/50 "2013-03-20T21:16:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **saje** , I edited your post to make it clearer which parts are quotes from **Machine Elf** and which parts are your responses. Please don’t change text inside the quote boxes. Even if you use color to highlight your responses, it can be confused - and it makes it hard for other posters to quote you and answer your post. Thanks for fixing that. I thought I’d put “my comments in green” in there but I lost it in the editing, I think. Sorry for the confusion!~ ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/51 "2013-03-20T21:18:39Z")
\*It’s no fun Being an illegal alien \* C’mon, sing it with me! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/52 "2013-03-20T21:23:22Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > There are two reasons I think it’s erroneous to use more palatable words: > > 1. It weakens the debate by looking like one is using doublespeak. > 2. It potentially reduces the focus on what needs to be done. Undocumented immigrants (or whatever one wants to call them) _are_ here illegally. The fix is not to document them but to remove the laws that make them illegal. > > They are here illegally and they’re here to work. Be strong and not afraid to call them “illegal workers” and let’s get the law(s) changed. 🙂 The entire reason they are called illegal aliens is to try and get us to just kick them out, which is definitely not the response we want. Changing the words makes it more clear what we want. If they are undocumented workers, obviously what we want is for them to become documented. That’s the only solution that is going to work. And I note that even you are insisting on using a different word, so the doublespeak thing must not be that big a deal. We want to correct their doublespeak. If that pisses some bigots like Machine Elf and his wife off, all the better. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/53 "2013-03-20T21:23:44Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I think we should be using the term “illegal alien” instead of a “undocumented immigrant” or some such. Just like I think we should use the term “slave” instead of “forced laborer”. Euphemisms hide the ugly truth and let people put the severity of the problem out of mind. I appreciate the justice of this post coming from **Pleonasm** , but at least in this case it isn’t true. People have been calling these people illegal aliens for decades and the problem isn’t solved. There’s also been some movement on the problem lately in Congress even though newer terms like undocumented worker are becoming more common. And you could make an argument that calling these people illegal aliens blames them for the entire problem when there is a broader systemic issue. Misplaced blame doesn’t solve anything and it’s more likely to make a situation worse than it is to help. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/54 "2013-03-20T21:28:20Z")
I think there are a couple of other things that need to be pointed out- an overwhelming majority are Mexicans who come here to work, but don’t necessarily have any desire to become Americans, get American citizenship, or integrate into American society. They want to come, live illegally, earn money, and send it back to Mexico. This isn’t the same kind of immigration as your 19th century poor Italians, Poles and Hungarians coming through Ellis Island to make a new life in America and wanting to become Americans ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/55 "2013-03-20T21:28:22Z")
> [@EMCEE\_98](#): > > Explain why that makes no sense. If you are not 100% Native American, you are an “illegal alien.” Well no. That simply isn’t true. There are multiple designations for people who are not illegal aliens. Some of the big ones are: Citizen, permanent resident, H1B-Visa holder and even tourist for those just dropping in for quick visit. None of those groups are illegal aliens in the U.S. (or anywhere else). It is a basic matter of sovereignty for any nation to be able to control its borders and it has nothing to do with Native Americans. Immigration laws used to be more informal and lax. None of my ancestors broke any laws by settling here in the 17th century and neither did those of most other people all the way up through the early 20th century. As I have said before, people that object to the term ‘illegal aliens’ are really just for some sort of open borders and yet are not bold enough to say so or have some sort of cognitive deficiency that makes them fail to realize that they are advocating de facto open borders without any controls whatsoever (having harsh penalties for felons that live illegally in the U.S. for example). All of this is because they are too chickenshit to say what they really want and actually fight for it even if they could figure out what that is. What we are left with is whiny bitching about the terminology like usual. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/56 "2013-03-20T21:32:18Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > What term does the OP propose for people who have done everything they are required by US law to do, but have reached a point where they need to do another step and cannot because the US government is not doing one of its own parts in a timely fashion? Those people do not have every document they need, but they have never chosen to break a US law. If someone who is not a citizen of the United States is living here, and working here, without the appropriate permission of the United States, be that a temporary visa or a green card, or some kind of permit, they are (a) an alien and (b) living here, or at least working here, illegally. That is a fact. Look, I think the reason we don’t have sensible and effective immigration reform is because there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in there being a large pool of inexpensive and exploitable labor. That is just plain immoral, and we need to do something about it. That might be a guest worker program. It might be easing of requirements to obtain permanent legal resident status. I do not know. But I am, always, on the side of exploited labor. And that means that I think that if you hire a nanny who doesn’t have a visa or a green card, and pay her under the table, you’re part of the problem. You’re exploiting a worker who cannot complain to the authorities (Department of Labor, OSHA, etc.). Who will not have access to medical care. Or Social Security. I’m looking at you, Park Slope mommies, all you perfect organic baby-raising Food Co-Op-shopping progressive educating liberals. You are the problem. I don’t blame that nanny (or that agricultural worker, or diswasher, or delivery guy, or chicken-processing plant worker) for risking a great deal to make a shitty wage, but he or she is in fact here and working illegally. It is true, though, that we actively encourage “illegal immigrants” to come here, basically so that we can screw them in the labor market. Let’s keep using the term “illegal aliens,” because “undocumented workers” obscures the fact that we’re fucking them over every day. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/57 "2013-03-20T21:32:20Z")
> [@EMCEE\_98](#): > > Explain why that makes no sense. If you are not 100% Native American, you are an “illegal alien.” Native Americans are illegal aliens too. They did not evolve on this continent. They evolved elsewhere and immigrated here, illegally. They did not have the permission of the native species to come here. And then what did those bastards do? They start killing and eating the local populaces and as far as I know they are still doing that to this day. Bastards! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![happycamper\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@happycamper\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happycamper_5)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/58 "2013-03-20T21:33:08Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > And yet, amazingly, the annual quotas for legal immigration never go unfilled. Clearly the difficulty and expense of filing the required forms is not the problem. And if that proves anything, it proves that there are plenty of people who had situations, at least, as easy as my own. It says nothing at all of the people with more difficulties, and I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the majority of the undocumented are made up of people who would have more difficulties with the legal immigration process. Understand something - I’m not excusing it. I’m saying that I have more sympathy now than I had before because I understand how difficult it can be to jump through all the hoops required, even when those hoops are quite large and low to the ground. To stay on topic, I don’t know if the term used makes any difference at all. However, inflammatory language usually doesn’t lead to sensible discussion and, since immigration reform is one of the many issues the US should address (IMHO, anyway), it would probably be more productive not to use it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/59 "2013-03-20T21:36:03Z")
Because I know you guys won’t figure this out: [spoiler]I called him a bigot because it’s accurate, so, by his own logic, we should call him such. He wants people treated differently not because the content of their character but based on something they can’t control: where they were born. See how being inflammatorily accurate doesn’t help things?[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/60 "2013-03-20T21:36:31Z")
> [@EMCEE\_98](#): > > If you are not 100% Native American, you are an “illegal alien.” Those “homeland security since 1492” shirts are funny, but please don’t mistake them for actual legal statements. The Europeans who colonized North America may have been greedy and genocidal assholes, but they didn’t violate any immigration laws. If you were born in the U.S. in the last, say, 200 years and your parents are citizens, you’re not an illegal alien. If you don’t believe me, check, you know, some laws. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=4)