# They're illegal aliens; stop making up other names for them. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468 "2013-03-20T17:16:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/61 "2013-03-20T21:40:25Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Native Americans are illegal aliens too. They did not evolve on this continent. They evolved elsewhere and immigrated here, illegally. They did not have the permission of the native species to come here. And then what did those bastards do? They start killing and eating the local populaces and as far as I know they are still doing that to this day. Bastards! :mad: Exactly! As an American Bison, I say kick them all out! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/62 "2013-03-20T21:42:17Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Exactly! As an American Bison, I say kick them all out! 😃 This [clip](http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/nktd0e/chappelle-s-show-diversity-in-first-class) is what instantly came to mind when you posted. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/63 "2013-03-20T21:43:08Z")
Adjudged illegal by what tribunal? They stand accused of being illegal by you and your racist friends. That does not mean they are in fact committing any illegal acts. Some people do in fact commit illegal acts, but that is insufficient to brand a people who might be legal as illegal just because you get your jollies from an un-American presumption of guilt based on race. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/64 "2013-03-20T21:47:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because I know you guys won’t figure this out: > > [spoiler]I called him a bigot because it’s accurate, so, by his own logic, we should call him such. He wants people treated differently not because the content of their character but based on something they can’t control: where they were born. > > See how being inflammatorily accurate doesn’t help things?[/spoiler] These arguments are idiotic. Nobody is attacking the individual people, just their actions and the facts of their living situation as it stands now. Of course people are discriminated against because of where they were born. Everyone is including you and me. If you don’t believe, hop on a plane a head to France or Australia or Japan and tell them at Customs that you have just decided to stay there for the rest of your life. That is a product of having sovereign countries. If you don’t believe in having those at all either, that is a valid view but it does insist that you broaden the scope of your argument away from semantics and focus more on the practicalities on how we can get to this One World Government with fully open borders. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/65 "2013-03-20T21:50:20Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Adjudged illegal by what tribunal? They stand accused of being illegal by you and your racist friends. That does not mean they are in fact committing any illegal acts. Some people do in fact commit illegal acts, but that is insufficient to brand a people who might be legal as illegal just because you get your jollies from an un-American presumption of guilt based on race. The OP didn’t mention race, numbnuts. Nobody did, in fact, except a couple of posters looking to score cheapshots. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/66 "2013-03-20T21:57:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The entire reason they are called illegal aliens is to try and get us to just kick them out, which is definitely not the response we want. Changing the words makes it more clear what we want. If they are undocumented workers, obviously what we want is for them to become documented. That’s the only solution that is going to work. I agree with you to a point which is why I suggested “illegal worker”. I’m mostly ok with “illegal immigrant” as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/67 "2013-03-20T21:59:08Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > you and your racist friends. This is where the party ends. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/68 "2013-03-20T22:04:46Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Exactly! As an American Bison, I say kick them all out! 😃 Preach it Brother Bison. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/69 "2013-03-20T22:11:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The entire reason they are called illegal aliens is to try and get us to just kick them out, which is definitely not the response we want. Obviously, you don’t live in an area where illegal aliens are a major problem. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/70 "2013-03-20T22:17:33Z")
How about we call them “Retroactive natives”? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/71 "2013-03-20T22:21:47Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > How about we call them “Retroactive natives”? No, that’s what we call them after we amnesty them. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/72 "2013-03-20T22:23:58Z")
The thing is, we don’t usually refer to a person violating the law as “illegal.” We don’t have illegal drivers speeding, illegal taxpayers not filing, illegal managers violating labor laws or illegal chefs not following health codes. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/73 "2013-03-20T22:24:26Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Obviously, you don’t live in an area where illegal aliens are a major problem. okay, I’ll bite. Where are illegal aliens a major problem? (and by “problem,” I mean a situation that would not be solved if they were granted amnesty) ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/74 "2013-03-20T22:26:47Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > It seems to pop up in the press a lot: people born outside the US who snuck in, or overstayed their visa, and are now in violation of the law by their very presence get referred to as “undocumented workers,” “unauthorized immigrants,” and various other terms - all of which seem designed to avoid drawing attention to the fact that they are not from here and are breaking the law. > > If your presence in this country is a violation of US immigration law, then you are an illegal alien. Or just an “alien” based on [the definition.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alien) - A foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and is still a subject or citizen of a foreign country; broadly : a foreign-born citizen. \* Calling them “illegal” doesn’t really make sense when you break it down. It’s like saying “she’s an illegal French woman”. If you want to be all pedantic, a cumbersome term like “undocumented illegal alien worker” should be used. But English is a language where words and phrases can be used as short hand and we have words and phrases to substitute for other words and phrases so we don’t have to constantly repeat the same words and phrases. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/75 "2013-03-20T22:30:31Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > It seems to pop up in the press a lot: people born outside the US who snuck in, or overstayed their visa, and are now in violation of the law by their very presence get referred to as “undocumented workers,” “unauthorized immigrants,” and various other terms - all of which seem designed to avoid drawing attention to the fact that they are not from here and are breaking the law. > > They’re not “unauthorized:” they did not forget to obtain permission from the school principal or their parents. They did not neglect to obtain a building permit. > > They’re not “undocumented:” it’s entirely possible they have a passport or other documentation. That doesn’t mean they are here legally. > > They’re not “workers:” they may or may not have a job. Maybe they’re students. Maybe they’re thieves. Maybe they’re stay-at-home spouses. Maybe they’re political refugees. > > They’re not “immigrants:” “immigrant” is a status on your visa, like “student” or tourist." If you have an expired visa (or none at all), then that status no longer applies. > > If your presence in this country is a violation of US immigration law, then you are an illegal alien. You know a lot of those words are synonyms in this context. Its not like pro-choice activists trying to call pro-life folks “anti-choice” when theya re actually anti-abortion, or pro-life activists calling pro-choice activists “pro-abortion” when they are actually pro-choice. Undocumented and unauthorized are just as accurate as illegal. If these other terms don’t seem accurate for you its only because you want everyone to see the issue exactly the same way you do. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/76 "2013-03-20T22:37:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think there are a couple of other things that need to be pointed out- an overwhelming majority are Mexicans who come here to work, but don’t necessarily have any desire to become Americans, get American citizenship, or integrate into American society. They want to come, **live illegally** , earn money, and send it back to Mexico. Emphasis added. I suspect that the vast majority would prefer to live legally, earn money, and send it back to Mexico. The fact that they **can’t** do it that way is not indicative of their desire. Hence the whole “seasonal worker” stuff in most of the current immigration reform packages. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/77 "2013-03-20T22:49:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Undocumented and unauthorized are just as accurate as illegal. If these other terms don’t seem accurate for you its only because you want everyone to see the issue exactly the same way you do. I think ‘unauthorized’ is a fine term to use in this situation as well. It explains the situation nicely so, if that term makes someone happy, knock yourself out. ‘Undocumented’ is not a good term in my opinion. It suggests that the problem only lies with the documentation itself and that isn’t true. Documentation is only to provide proof of a legal status in this case and the legal status itself is unaffected whether they have some sort of documents or not. You have to make a change to their legal status to have any real meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/78 "2013-03-20T22:50:57Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > okay, I’ll bite. Where are illegal aliens a major problem? (and by “problem,” I mean a situation that would not be solved if they were granted amnesty) California, Texas, and Arizona for starters. You can’t tell me you didn’t know that already. Once again, the requirement you put on it has little relevance to the actual problem. Amnesty would only impact those that are already here and (presumably) productive members of society already. The problem with illegal immigration would still exist even if you granted blanket amnesty to all such people today. What you seem want to want is some sort of open borders but you are either too dense to realize that or too scared to actually say it directly. That is the thing that pisses me off about this argument. People want to fight tooth and nail over semantic issues rather than dealing with the actual long-term problem at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/79 "2013-03-20T22:57:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > okay, I’ll bite. Where are illegal aliens a major problem? (and by “problem,” I mean a situation that would not be solved if they were granted amnesty) Well, here’s an example of where illegal aliens are a problem: In New York City, affluent mothers hire child care workers (“nannies”) who are, by and large, illegal, undocumented, whatever you want to call them, and don’t pay workers’ comp or FICA or offer health insurance or paid time off or any of the benefits legal , . This has depressed wages to the point where a person wishing to do this work cannot negotiate for any benefits at all, not even the ones they are legally entitled to (FICA, workers’ comp). I don’t know how amnesty would affect the situation, except that I’m betting that these employers don’t want amnesty, because it would cost them money. A great number of these employers would identify themselves as progressive people, always on the side of the poor and downtrodden. I guess buying fair-trade coffee balances things out enough so that you can screw your employees. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/80 "2013-03-20T22:59:42Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > California, Texas, and Arizona for starters. You can’t tell me you didn’t know that already. > > Once again, the requirement you put on it has little relevance to the actual problem. Amnesty would only impact those that are already here and (presumably) productive members of society already. The problem with illegal immigration would still exist even if you granted blanket amnesty to all such people today. What you seem want to want is some sort of open borders but you are either too dense to realize that or too scared to actually say it directly. > > That is the thing that pisses me off about this argument. People want to fight tooth and nail over semantic issues rather than dealing with the actual long-term problem at hand. Well, granted I don’t live in California, Texas or Arizona. So, maybe that’s why I don’t see the problem. Or I’m too dense. If the people already here are productive members of society, what is it that’s so bad about the situation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=5)