# They're illegal aliens; stop making up other names for them. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468 "2013-03-20T17:16:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/81 "2013-03-20T23:06:45Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The thing is, we don’t usually refer to a person violating the law as “illegal.” We don’t have illegal drivers speeding, illegal taxpayers not filing, illegal managers violating labor laws or illegal chefs not following health codes. No because the words do’t apply in most of those situations but they can. I would say that an unlicensed driver is an illegal driver. Licensed drivers that break the law are speeders or violators. Managers that break labor laws aren’t illegal managers because there is no such thing but they can be anything from scumbags to felons depending on the circumstances. Chefs that don’t follow health codes have other terms applied to them like ‘unemployed’ or ‘bankrupt’ if the word gets out on the street. There is nothing that differentiates illegal immigrants from other types of law breakers when it comes to proprietary derogatory terms (read Pit threads about litterers, pet abusers or hundreds of other types sometime) and I would argue that the one assigned to them is pretty accurate and mild. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/82 "2013-03-20T23:28:46Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > If the people already here are productive members of society, what is it that’s so bad about the situation? Because not all of them are good and productive members of society. Some of them come of them through tunnels or over fences to run large gangs or distribute drugs with lots of associated murders. By allowing de facto open borders in the name of compassion, you are also jeopardizing the right of a sovereign nation to control its borders. By turning a blind eye to the issue, there is no way to differentiate the ones that jump the border because they want a better life for their family and those just want engage in criminal activity for a quick gain. I am all for immigration reform that screens applicants carefully but that wouldn’t eliminate illegal immigration altogether either. At some point, you have to give law enforcement the ability to deport people that should not be here simply based on that fact alone. None of us live in a world where you just roam and shack up wherever you want to for whatever length of time you choose. That applies to you, me and everyone else. There is no reason for liberals and progressives to hold the U.S. in special contempt for this. It applies to all sovereign nations and most of them are more strict than we are. ---
**Author:** ![EMCEE\_98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@EMCEE\_98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EMCEE_98)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/83 "2013-03-21T00:10:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Those “homeland security since 1492” shirts are funny, but please don’t mistake them for actual legal statements. The Europeans who colonized North America may have been greedy and genocidal assholes, but they didn’t violate any immigration laws. If you were born in the U.S. in the last, say, 200 years and your parents are citizens, you’re not an illegal alien. If you don’t believe me, check, you know, some laws. Love those shirts. And yeah, I’m being somewhat tongue-in-cheek 😃 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/84 "2013-03-21T00:15:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > okay, I’ll bite. Where are illegal aliens a major problem? (and by “problem,” I mean a situation that would not be solved if they were granted amnesty) Southern California. Our illegals generally have few skills and while they are also generally willing to work hard, they don’t make much money and so don’t contribute much to the tax base (much less when they are illegal), yet take much out of it. Because we have a bleeding heart majority, we have a bazillion “social programs” that the illegals use. If you were to grant amnesty to them, they would still take out far more than they put in _and_ we’d just get a new wave of illegals. Until things are vastly improved in Mexico, it’s going to be an ongoing problem for us not matter what you want to do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/85 "2013-03-21T00:26:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The OP didn’t mention race, numbnuts. Nobody did, in fact, except a couple of posters looking to score cheapshots. Fuck you, you fucking fuck. What part of whining about people being “illegal” isn’t fascist racist code? I have nothing but contempt for you Marley, you piece of Nazi shit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/86 "2013-03-21T00:38:08Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > What part of whining about people being “illegal” isn’t fascist racist code? It’s a little embarrassing to read this kind of thing. It’s like a parody of what idiots think liberals think. Like I said already, the OP said nothing about race. I guess you assumed he’s talking about Latinos because you’re an oversensitive idiot who doesn’t have two brain cells to rub together, but not all illegal immigrants are Latino and the OP did not throw out any racial slurs or make any dumbass comments like that, so there’s no racial component. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/87 "2013-03-21T00:44:52Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Fuck you, you fucking fuck. What part of whining about people being “illegal” isn’t fascist racist code? I have nothing but contempt for you Marley, you piece of Nazi shit. [Moderating] Saying “Fuck you” to other posters is a violation of the Pit’s language rules. Don’t do this again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/88 "2013-03-21T01:06:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > Saying “Fuck you” to other posters is a violation of the Pit’s language rules. Don’t do this again. > [/Moderating] I have reviewed the rules and you are correct. I withdraw the comment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/89 "2013-03-21T01:17:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s a little embarrassing to read this kind of thing. It’s like a parody of what idiots think liberals think. Like I said already, the OP said nothing about race. I guess you assumed he’s talking about Latinos because you’re an oversensitive idiot who doesn’t have two brain cells to rub together, but not all illegal immigrants are Latino and the OP did not throw out any racial slurs or make any dumbass comments like that, so there’s no racial component. You should be embarassed: it’s about non-white people. It is all about race. One can smile and smile and still be a villain. We all know exactly what you mean and who you really are. You think because you never say things like “47 percent” out loud that we have to credit people like you with being the sort of human being who cares about the respect and decency of others. What you and the OP are doing is little different than complaining about Jewish looking people at Trader Joe’s. And you know it. That racist got deservedly banned. We know what modern conservatives are about: appealing to white supremacists. You don’t fool anyone just because you’ve coded non-white’s and/or immigrants as “illegals” without due process. Demographics will flush your kind down the toilet of history, and good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/90 "2013-03-21T01:34:25Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You should be embarassed: it’s about non-white people. It is all about race. One can smile and smile and still be a villain. We all know exactly what you mean and who you really are. You think because you never say things like “47 percent” out loud that we have to credit people like you with being the sort of human being who cares about the respect and decency of others. What you and the OP are doing is little different than complaining about Jewish looking people at Trader Joe’s. And you know it. That racist got deservedly banned. > > We know what modern conservatives are about: appealing to white supremacists. You don’t fool anyone just because you’ve coded non-white’s and/or immigrants as “illegals” without due process. Demographics will flush your kind down the toilet of history, and good riddance. You are monstrously stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/91 "2013-03-21T01:35:17Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > okay, I’ll bite. Where are illegal aliens a major problem? (and by “problem,” I mean a situation that would not be solved if they were granted amnesty) I’ll try and save you the headache you’re about to get. I’m pretty sure the answer will be “anywhere that they are, as they leech off of the rest of us.” I’ve always found this stance odd, as the poster in question is actually a recipient in one of those “socialist handout” programs. Anyway, it’s really not worth it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/92 "2013-03-21T01:49:33Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > What you and the OP are doing is little different than complaining about Jewish looking people at Trader Joe’s. And you know it. That racist got deservedly banned. [Do tell.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16102019#post16102019) > [@](#): > > We know what modern conservatives are about What’s that have to do with me, you dumb shit? The problem with what you’re doing is that you are too mouthbreathingly stupid to distinguish between a reasonable inference and your own stupid assumptions about what people are thinking. There’s a racist component to anti-immigrant fervor and plenty of people talk about illegal immigration in a racist way, but the OP didn’t do it. (His complaint is kinda dumb, but it’s not racist.) What you’re doing is trying to forestall a discussion by screaming “raaaaacist!” And it makes you look like a moron. But that’s never deterred you before, so I shouldn’t be surprised you’re doing it again. > [@Miller](#): > > You are monstrously stupid. That’s unfair. Elmo and Cookie Monster could run circles around **The Second Stone** intellectually. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/93 "2013-03-21T01:50:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Southern California. Our illegals generally have few skills and while they are also generally willing to work hard, they don’t make much money and so don’t contribute much to the tax base (much less when they are illegal), yet take much out of it. Because we have a bleeding heart majority, we have a bazillion “social programs” that the illegals use. If you were to grant amnesty to them, they would still take out far more than they put in _and_ we’d just get a new wave of illegals. Until things are vastly improved in Mexico, it’s going to be an ongoing problem for us not matter what you want to do. [That’s empirically false](http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration), on all counts. First of all, “illegals” is not a word. Immigrants (all things considered) only migrate when there are jobs available, and they create more jobs (and pay more taxes) than they take. The benefits are maximized for everyone when this process is legalized. Remittances go a long way, and as such, immigration is self-limiting, \*in the absence of other factors, \* which usually make all the difference. In other words, emigration from Mexico has dropped a great deal, due to many positive factors. Unfortunately, this could have happened much sooner, if not for the [damage done by NAFTA](https://www.google.com/url?q=http://truth-out.org/news/item/15152-nafta-at-20-the-new-spin&sa=U&ei=iWZKUbniB8SG0QGJtoDgBA&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNF_BJRP0Eh_sXIY8mxDcQp__IaMGQ). A fair-trade, non-neoliberal agreement with provisions to help the most vulnerable cope with job loss (which is what the labor movement wanted on both sides of the border) and with improvements (not degradations) in labor and environmental standards would have been far superior. For Central America, consider all of those neoliberal policies, and add a set of foreign policies from the US that turned several countries into killing fields. People are forced to come here because “we” went there. Stop blaming the victims. Blame the perpetrators, and support reform to gain maximum utility from this state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/94 "2013-03-21T01:52:59Z")
Happy Holidays, Elf. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/95 "2013-03-21T01:55:09Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, granted I don’t live in California, Texas or Arizona. So, maybe that’s why I don’t see the problem. Or I’m too dense. If the people already here are productive members of society, what is it that’s so bad about the situation? I think the problem is that, while they can get low wage work and appear productive, they can’t really move up or grow a career. Staying in a low wage job long term means that there’s little chance to move your family out of poverty, or to rise into a better job with benefits, negotiate better salary, plan well for retirement, or send their kids to college. In some communities it also means that low wage beginner jobs are not available to local teenagers because they are all held, at low pay, by undocumented workers (or whatever you want to call them). So then we have a whole generation of kids who can’t work their way through college, or get started on a career once they graduate, and so we get media messages about this lazy millennial generation who move back home with their parents after graduation because they can’t even get a job at Burger King. I’ve generally been pretty conservative on this issue, but not because of any argument over language or legality. It’s wrong to keep an entire group of people at the bottom of the pile simply because it serves the ones at the top, and it’s wrong to make an entire country put up with the lack of solution simply because we don’t want to make a difficult decision. Either open the borders or throw them all out, I don’t care, but let’s solve it and move on to something else that needs fixing. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/96 "2013-03-21T02:03:32Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You should be embarassed: it’s about non-white people. It is all about race. One can smile and smile and still be a villain. We all know exactly what you mean and who you really are. You think because you never say things like “47 percent” out loud that we have to credit people like you with being the sort of human being who cares about the respect and decency of others. What you and the OP are doing is little different than complaining about Jewish looking people at Trader Joe’s. And you know it. That racist got deservedly banned. I don’t usually side **Marley23** but you do, in fact, appear to be completely stupid. Nobody said anything about race. We have plenty plenty of Russian and other eastern European immigrants in my area. It has nothing to do with race and I don’t even dislike them as individuals. It has nothing to do with that. It is all about overall national policy and the responsibilities of a sovereign nation to control its own borders. This isn’t even a left wing/right wing thing. They are both in this in one big (and dysfunctional) circle jerk to ignore the problem and say that it is Ok if you ignore certain laws as long as you keep your head down, don’t make trouble, and benefit business owners. That is the worst of all worlds. Your comments are completely off-base and irrelevant. You just painted yourself as a person that can’t comprehend much outside of a narrow mindset. Nobody said what you accused them of saying. This board may too nuanced and intelligent for you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/97 "2013-03-21T02:09:00Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t usually side **Marley23** but you do, in fact, appear to be completely stupid. Come on people now… smile on your brother … everybody get together, try to love one another right now… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/98 "2013-03-21T02:14:13Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > And yet, amazingly, the annual quotas for legal immigration never go unfilled. Clearly the difficulty and expense of filing the required forms is not the problem. The quota for Mexican immigrants is _zero_; and let’s face it, +90% of the time “illegal immigrant” is a code phrase for “Mexican”. Or even just “vaguely Hispanic looking person who may or may not be an immigrant”. I’ve been with people who just gesture towards brown people they’ve never met and start complaining about “illegals”. Racism is a central feature of the anger against “illegals”, however often people like to pretend otherwise. And let’s face it; we want them here, and we want them here illegally. That makes them easier to exploit and abuse; we don’t want them demanding fair wages and decent, humane treatment after all, we want to treat them as expendable near-slaves. > [@bump](#): > > I think there are a couple of other things that need to be pointed out- an overwhelming majority are Mexicans who come here to work, but don’t necessarily have any desire to become Americans, get American citizenship, or integrate into American society. They want to come, live illegally, earn money, and send it back to Mexico. > > This isn’t the same kind of immigration as your 19th century poor Italians, Poles and Hungarians coming through Ellis Island to make a new life in America and wanting to become Americans Since we refuse to allow them the option, how do you know that? > [@Astroboy14](#): > > What about the Greys? They illegal too? Nope. They _write_ the laws. Well, them and the lizard people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/99 "2013-03-21T02:27:31Z")
We are the _worst_. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/100 "2013-03-21T03:02:29Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > [That’s empirically false](http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration), on all counts. First of all, “illegals” is not a word. Immigrants (all things considered) only migrate when there are jobs available, and they create more jobs (and pay more taxes) than they take. The benefits are maximized for everyone when this process is legalized. Well, you cited a political party, and none of it addressed what you quoted of my post, so I really have to assume that you have no idea what you are talking about. Illegals (it’s a word here, where we actually have to deal with the issue) migrate because things are gawdawful in their own country, not because they _know_ there are jobs here. Many of them just assume there will be jobs, and they end up hanging around Lowes and Home Depot hoping to pick up something, anything. Because they are illegal, they tend to be paid in cash, so no payroll taxes are paid. For those with false papers, they do pay taxes but since they are making so little money, the amount of tax they pay compared to the burden they put on social services doesn’t even begin to cover it, particularly health care. And the only jobs they create are for each other - stores for those who speak little or no English. > [@](#): > > Remittances go a long way, and as such, immigration is self-limiting, \*in the absence of other factors, \* which usually make all the difference. In other words, emigration from Mexico has dropped a great deal, due to many positive factors. Cite? Kind of hard to believe that anyone has any numbers since, obviously, illegals don’t want to be counted. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, this could have happened much sooner, if not for the [damage done by NAFTA](https://www.google.com/url?q=http://truth-out.org/news/item/15152-nafta-at-20-the-new-spin&sa=U&ei=iWZKUbniB8SG0QGJtoDgBA&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNF_BJRP0Eh_sXIY8mxDcQp__IaMGQ). A fair-trade, non-neoliberal agreement with provisions to help the most vulnerable cope with job loss (which is what the labor movement wanted on both sides of the border) and with improvements (not degradations) in labor and environmental standards would have been far superior. Uh huh. NAFTA created the financial chasm there, the social pressure to have a bunch of kids one cannot afford, the lack of jobs, the lack of a decent place to live? > [@](#): > > Stop blaming the victims. Blame the perpetrators, and support reform to gain maximum utility from this state of affairs. Honey, I am the victim. I’m the one paying out my retirement to support hundreds of thousands of people in this state alone who are here illegally and sucking up benefits. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Racism is a central feature of the anger against “illegals”, however often people like to pretend otherwise. Hardly. I have first and second generation Mexicans living on either side of me and across the street. My opinion of any one of them is based on factors that have nothing to do with race. > [@](#): > > And let’s face it; we want them here, We do? How is it that these folks you say are being exploited and abused _choose_ to be here, pay big money to do so and come back if deported? I suppose there are some businesses that are paying low wages with no benefits, but the illegals are still choosing to come here to work those jobs because the wages are far better than in their home country and the benefits are provided by the government. If you want to do something for these folks, point your energy at Mexico. Expecting a few border states to take on and care for the ever growing population of a whole country just isn’t going to work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=6)