# They're illegal aliens; stop making up other names for them. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468 "2013-03-20T17:16:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/141 "2013-03-21T17:42:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense. Illegal aliens pay [billions of dollars](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=1&) of taxes in return for nothing. I have no idea how the NY Times or anyone could come up with a number for what the illegals are paying into SS and Medicare thru their false papers, much less “billions”, particularly since almost all of them are making low wages, but that is beside the point. That money doesn’t come back to the state to pay for the social services that the illegals use here. > [@](#): > > It’s called “desperation”. They risk their lives to come here to do jobs Americans refuse to do, under conditions they refuse to work under, for wages Americans consider beneath them. And they get few “benefits”. :rolleyes: Yeah, nobody mowed lawns or did construction work or worked as maids before the illegals got here. Yes, I know things are desperate for them in Mexico, but they still choose to come here illegally, and to take work where they aren’t going to get paid much or have employer paid benefits. They aren’t slaves. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: We are the ones exploiting them, not the other way around. No matter how popular it is to play White Man’s Burden. It has nothing to do with white or men. The vast majority of us are not exploiting the illegals in any way, but we are supporting not only them but the same cultural norms that got them in trouble in Mexico. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You’ll note, however that the people who are kicking up a fuss in the thread are doing it over aspects and locales associated with Central/South American illegal immigration and especially Mexico. I personally would have a hard time believing that the OP read an article or something about Olga the undocumented nail technician or Sven the student with an expired visa and that’s what got under his skin. Exactly. If the problem we have here was because of a vast population of illegal Swedes, we’d be saying the same thing. The issue isn’t race, it’s the drain on society that illegals pose. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > As a side note, this pool of women is largely from the Caribbean and are almost all native English speakers. Not the most important thing in this discussion, but I saw a lot of posts above insisting that this debate is only about Mexicans. Which is untrue. Well, the debate in California, and I imagine also in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. is only about Mexicans, with a smattering of folks from even further south. We have almost zero experience with any illegals from the Caribbean, eastern Europe or Africa. > [@Bricker](#): > > Does a country have a moral right to create and impose immigration restrictions? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/142 "2013-03-21T17:45:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I should add that Machine Elf is horribly misinformed. Thank you. I appreciate your taking the time to point out my misinformation and add some enlightening facts to the discussion, instead of just screaming “you’re a fuckin’ racist!”. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/143 "2013-03-21T17:45:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, it hasn’t. In fact pretty much nothing has been done at all. So I don’t think changing the terms can hurt anything- particularly if the newer terms might be more accurate or less biased. I don’t think newer terms are more accurate or less biased. I think they try to hide the severity of the problem by using more palatable words. > [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Thinking that the term “illegal alien” blames the victim is accepting the opposition’s worldview. So don’t do that. > > I’m not sure who you are describing as “the opposition” here. The opposition are those who espouse the idea that illegal aliens are at fault. And that by saying that the term “illegal alien” implies blaming the alien, you are implicitly accepting that idea with respect to that term. Instead, I reject that the term “illegal alien” is derogatory or somehow faults the alien. I use the term because it directly describes the situation and the solution. Illegal aliens should be made legal. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The word “illegals” is used to dehumanize people, call them criminals when no such adjudication has been made, remove their rights and allow them to be oppressed. That’s what Clothahump wants to do when completely discarding “political correctness.” Political rights and social niceties are what make civilization. You’re almost right. “Illegal” is not exactly the same as “criminal”, or “convict”. And while illegal aliens are often dehumanized by the conditions they are in, euphemism does nothing to correct that. The fact that some people want to remove or oppress illegal aliens does not mean the term should not be used. It means the term should be used–confront them on the issue directly instead of using weasle terms like “undocumented immigrant”. Don’t let them control the language by preventing us from using the proper terms. Just like we didn’t let them take control of the term “patriot”. And like in the 19th century, the “slave” was used instead of some euphemism. Despite racists using the term. The poor conditions are why we don’t use an euphemism. Don’t give the racists a minor victory by letting them tell us what “illegal alien” really means. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/144 "2013-03-21T17:45:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is probably wrong and not really relevant. You’re no lawyer. Rest of pointless rant snipped. Bet? State of California says I am a lawyer. Let’s make it a Mitt Romney bet. $10,000. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/145 "2013-03-21T17:51:21Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bet? State of California says I am a lawyer. Let’s make it a Mitt Romney bet. $10,000. California? Isn’t that the state with all the illegals running around? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/146 "2013-03-21T17:53:21Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bet? State of California says I am a lawyer. Let’s make it a Mitt Romney bet. $10,000. Then California is, as I already know, retarded. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/147 "2013-03-21T17:57:25Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The word “illegals” is used to dehumanize people, call them criminals when no such adjudication has been made, remove their rights and allow them to be oppressed. Another person who is talking out his ass. The word “illegals” is applied to - surprise! - those who come and stay here - wait for it - illegally. It is not applied to any random “brown” person as you want to believe. This may surprise you, but all of the “brown people” here have a bunch of rights, whatever their status. And they aren’t being oppressed fercrissakes. > [@](#): > > The only people who are within the meaning of the law “illegal” immigrants are those who have so been adjudged and awaiting deportation. Really? So a thief isn’t a thief until he gets caught? > [@](#): > > Suggesting that there are whole swaths of “illegals” roaming around out there not convicted or even under indictment is an intentional fallacy of the heap. At no time are you not talking about individual human beings whose status in this country has not been questioned by any individual or government. Neither are we. > [@](#): > > I do not have to prove my immigration status to you or anyone else. Because I am lily-white, it is assumed that I have proper papers on file in public offices that pertain to me. Nope, in this state you have to prove it no matter what color you are. I am lily-white as well, but the only time I didn’t have to prove as was legally in this country when getting a job was when I direct transferred within a company. > [@](#): > > Presume that everyone has a right to be in a public or private place unless you know better. Did anyone say we don’t? No. > [@Deeg](#): > > I think this is the same argument used for centuries. Ben Franklin famously railed against German immigrants. Lawrence Welk, who was born in North Dakota, had a German accent because, outside of school, everybody spoke German in his town and English could be said to be his second language. > > I think most Mexicans (illegal or otherwise) come here because they want to work and lead a life not possible in Mexico. That is no different from most of us. It is vastly different in that those of us whose ancestors came over on some boat almost all came within the law and were subject to quotas. Today, in California, the illegals flow over the border uncounted and burden our economy. Think about it - do you really want a huge population of uneducated people as citizens in your state? People blather on about how the illegals take jobs that citizens won’t take, but there really aren’t _that_ many of those sorts of jobs to go around, especially since the economy cratered here. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/148 "2013-03-21T17:58:54Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I don’t think newer terms are more accurate or less biased. I think they try to hide the severity of the problem by using more palatable words. I’m just not seeing how that has happened here. We know there is a serious problem and for the first time in a while there is actually some movement towards a solution (if only because the Stark Raving Mad party thinks they’ll get a bunch of Latino votes that way). The terms aren’t the problem. > [@](#): > > The opposition are those who espouse the idea that illegal aliens are at fault. And that by saying that the term “illegal alien” implies blaming the alien, you are implicitly accepting that idea with respect to that term. But the term does carry that implication. That’s why they use it (or when that takes too long, “illegals”). The only thing they want to talk about is the legal status of these people - not what they actually do or why they are in the country or the state of the labor market. Pointing that out doesn’t cede anything to them. The people who say it’s a dehumanizing term are onto something. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Post 10. Here: The word “illegals” appears nowhere in that post. And I know you keep calling yourself an idiot, but you can’t be so fucking dumb you missed the sarcasm there. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bet? State of California says I am a lawyer. Let’s make it a Mitt Romney bet. $10,000. Let me guess: you run a firm with **pchaos**. We’re going to have to change our slogan to “The Straight Dope: home of the stupidest fucking lawyers in the world since 1973.” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/149 "2013-03-21T18:18:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > ince we refuse to allow them the option, how do you know that? The huge wave of illegal immigrants who went back to Mexico when the economy went south in 2008 is a big red flag to me that they weren’t here to make a permanent life in our country, but just here to make money. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/150 "2013-03-21T18:32:32Z")
The Second Stone needs to calm down and stop being such an illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/151 "2013-03-21T18:35:44Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > The Second Stone needs to calm down and stop being such an illegal. You’re going to give him a seizure, Mitt. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/152 "2013-03-21T18:46:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But the term does carry that implication. That’s why they use it (or when that takes too long, “illegals”). The only thing they want to talk about is the legal status of these people - not what they actually do or why they are in the country or the state of the labor market. Pointing that out doesn’t cede anything to them. The people who say it’s a dehumanizing term are onto something. Yes, you are ceding the term to them. You are conflating the term with the politics of some of the people who use the term. I’m sick of partisans claiming terminology implies political views–and both sides let the other do it. It’s bad for communication and it’s bad for politics. Instead of arguing over policy, we have people using terms as badges to denote which tribe they’re a member of, and then simply attacking everyone else as an other. Case in point, see **The Second Stone**. Don’t let the opposition dehumanize illegal aliens by accepting their connotations. Use “illegal alien” as a term to describe an unfortunate condition, that can be resolved by legalizing the alien. If you let only them use the term, you’re passively accepting their use of it. I won’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/153 "2013-03-21T18:53:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m just not seeing how that has happened here. We know there is a serious problem and for the first time in a while there is actually some movement towards a solution (if only because the Stark Raving Mad party thinks they’ll get a bunch of Latino votes that way). The terms aren’t the problem. > > But the term does carry that implication. That’s why they use it (or when that takes too long, “illegals”). The only thing they want to talk about is the legal status of these people - not what they actually do or why they are in the country or the state of the labor market. Pointing that out doesn’t cede anything to them. The people who say it’s a dehumanizing term are onto something. > > The word “illegals” appears nowhere in that post. And I know you keep calling yourself an idiot, but you can’t be so fucking dumb you missed the sarcasm there. > > Let me guess: you run a firm with **pchaos**. We’re going to have to change our slogan to “The Straight Dope: home of the stupidest fucking lawyers in the world since 1973.” So now you would have us believe that you were being sarcastic the whole time _ **and didn’t mean it** _. You now ask us to grant you that you meant the exact opposite of what you wrote in black and white. Too bad you didn’t indicate that by saying so. I don’t think you were being sarcastic. Your post does use the term “illegal aliens”. My beef is with “illegal aliens” as much as it is “illegals.” I notice that you did not take me up on the bet. As usual, you say things that you can’t back up, except by having your buddies come in and agree with you. I’ve never met “pchaos” and don’t remember any of his/her posts. Yeah, I’m onto something when I say calling people illegals or illegal aliens is dehumanizing. Let’s be specific about the something I’m onto: I’m onto racists. And calling out the racists. You say “The terms aren’t the problem.” They are a huge part of the problem, particularly when they are not called out. They are coded messages for racists, intended by the people who insist on their use to be heard as racist messages, but not subject to the approbation of racist messages. When you say “The terms aren’t the problem” you give them cover and further their message. And deeply undermine your claim to sarcasm. The medium of forms of “illegal” is the message. The message is that they need not be given the full courtesies of others, legal, political and social. That they are somehow causing a problem. The fact is that most Americans want immigrants here to do various jobs at many levels of many industries. And in our homes. But many also want to put them outside the protection of the law, social courtesy and dehumanize them. This has the net effect of taking unfair advantage of them _ **and** _ keeping all wages low. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/154 "2013-03-21T18:58:35Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m sick of partisans claiming terminology implies political views–and both sides let the other do it. They’re not necessarily saying that, though. They’re saying words mean things and they can connote different ideas and assumptions that shouldn’t go unquestioned. And that happens to be true. > [@](#): > > Don’t let the opposition dehumanize illegal aliens by accepting their connotations. They dehumanize them all the time. The language doesn’t cause that, it just reflects it. > [@](#): > > Use “illegal alien” as a term to describe an unfortunate condition, that can be resolved by legalizing the alien. And like I said, it also puts all the blame on the immigrant and pays no heed to any other factor. Whenever you call anything illegal, the implication is always “that should be stopped”- not “the law should be changed to remedy a basic unfairness.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/155 "2013-03-21T19:06:20Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bet? State of California says I am a lawyer. Let’s make it a Mitt Romney bet. $10,000. Really? What area of law do you practice? Are you, by any chance, a trial lawyer? If so, can I come watch your next trial? Because given your demonstrated ignorance of even the most basic of rhetorical devices, and your manifest inability to follow a line of thought from one sentence to the next, I bet it would be a real hoot to watch you up in front of a judge. Do they allow popcorn in court? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/156 "2013-03-21T19:15:04Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > So now you would have us believe There is no “us,” stupid. > [@](#): > > Your post does use the term “illegal aliens”. My beef is with “illegal aliens” as much as it is “illegals.” So you think I actually believe those words were handed down by god on tablets of fire (even though I’m an atheist) and that the words “illegal aliens” are written in the stars - and that I was being serious in that post and then contradicted it in a bunch of subsequent ones, like the one where I told **Machine Elf** his post was goofy because it’s legit to argue about what terms can be used for these people. How does that make sense to you? I think you’re making this up as you go along. You’re having an outrage fit and you can’t admit you misunderstood something, which is odd because you must have lots of practice. In fact I think we’ve done this in the Pit before. You’re too dumb to understand sarcasm or nuance, so periodically you go on a stupidity binge and call me some kind of right-wing reactionary. > [@](#): > > I notice that you did not take me up on the bet. Ok, I’ll take you up on the bet. Wire me $20,000 and I’ll happily bet you $10,000. > [@](#): > > Let’s be specific about the something I’m onto Huffing glue? > [@](#): > > The message is that they need not be given the full courtesies of others, legal, political and social. That they are somehow causing a problem. Of course I already said most of that. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/157 "2013-03-21T19:22:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They’re not necessarily saying that, though. They’re saying words mean things and they can connote different ideas and assumptions that shouldn’t go unquestioned. And that happens to be true. You’re accepting their connotation that “illegal aliens” is derogatory. I’m not only questioning that connotation, I’m rejecting it. > [@Marley23](#): > > They dehumanize them all the time. The language doesn’t cause that, it just reflects it. You only say it reflects it because you do not question their connotation. > [@Marley23](#): > > And like I said, it also puts all the blame on the immigrant and pays no heed to any other factor. Whenever you call anything illegal, the implication is always “that should be stopped”- not “the law should be changed to remedy a basic unfairness.” You keep accepting the opposition’s connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/158 "2013-03-21T19:31:40Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You’re accepting their connotation that “illegal aliens” is derogatory. Yes, and? Words mean whatever they’re used to mean. If it’s used in a derogatory way by enough people, it’s derogatory. The fact that it was ultimately shortened to “illegals” (like that’s the only relevant fact about these people) tells you everything you need to know about that. > [@](#): > > You only say it reflects it because you do not question their connotation. I am able to question it. I’m just not impressed by what you’re suggesting. You’re arguing we should keep using a loaded term that directs all the focus to one group of people and which is really dehumanizing just because you think it makes the situation sound more serious and you assume the serious term will make people push harder to fix this situation. All of that is wrong, so I’m not going to waste my time insisting on “illegal aliens” over something else, like undocumented workers. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/159 "2013-03-21T19:37:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I thought I made it obvious enough. I’d rather avoid your mandatory “ah, if you believe that, you must also believe [random comparison to, usually, hating Jews]” hijack. Well then, respectfully, you’ve made some very bad assumptions because I haven’t accused anyone on this thread of being a racist. Nor was I engaging in a hijack, I just challenged the idea that it was wrong to think that Machine Elf clearly had Hispanics in mind when he made his OP. Anyway, I’m going to back out of this pissing contest because I think the two of us largely agree on this thread and both of us I guess would be considered “crypto fascists” or “racists” by some since I’ve used the term “illegal immigrants” which some feel is the same as referring to “illegals”. For the record, I personally don’t think the term “illegal immigrant” is a pejorative and had my father not been able to immigrate to the US legally, I’m sure he’d have tried to do so illegally, though he’d probably have tried France first. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468/160 "2013-03-21T19:46:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, and? Words mean whatever they’re used to mean. If it’s used in a derogatory way by enough people, it’s derogatory. The fact that it was ultimately shortened to “illegals” (like that’s the only relevant fact about these people) tells you everything you need to know about that. > > I am able to question it. I’m just not impressed by what you’re suggesting. You’re arguing we should keep using a loaded term that directs all the focus to one group of people and which is really dehumanizing just because you think it makes the situation sound more serious and you assume the serious term will make people push harder to fix this situation. All of that is wrong, so I’m not going to waste my time insisting on “illegal aliens” over something else, like undocumented workers. So don’t use the term “illegals”. I think we understand each other, but fundamentally disagree. Would you also use “unforced laborer” instead of “slave”? The situation is dehumanizing, not the term. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-illegal-aliens-stop-making-up-other-names-for-them/653468.md?page=9)