# They're not serious, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827 "2005-05-27T23:25:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/1 "2005-05-27T23:25:51Z")
[Apparently knife crime has gotten pretty bad in England](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm) Does anyone seriously think that this is a solution or enforceable? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/2 "2005-05-27T23:29:33Z")
1. There’s already another thread on this. 2. So a few people call for a ban on something - it doesn’t mean any legislation will follow, or that there is a serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/3 "2005-05-27T23:30:33Z")
And all this time we’ve been told that gun control was the solution, and all this time we’ve been told that guns were the problem, and in our retorts we said that the criminals would go to some other weapons and that guns were not the problem. I feel somewhat vindicated. What’s next? Baseball/cricket bats, sporks and Silly Putty? Wait a second, what am I saying? The “slippery slope” doesn’t exist. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/4 "2005-05-27T23:40:13Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And all this time we’ve been told that gun control was the solution, and all this time we’ve been told that guns were the problem, and in our retorts we said that the criminals would go to some other weapons and that guns were not the problem. > > I feel somewhat vindicated. What’s next? Baseball/cricket bats, sporks and Silly Putty? Wait a second, what am I saying? The “slippery slope” doesn’t exist. :rolleyes: In what sense are you ‘vindicated’? Gun control is indeed the solution (we have far less gun crime here than in the US). What criminals have gone to what other weapons? Why would anything else be ‘next’? There’s no legislation involved here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/5 "2005-05-27T23:42:55Z")
Rather face a thug with a knife, I can outrun a knife. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/6 "2005-05-27T23:47:29Z")
Well, ANYTHING to increase safety, right? I mean, if we all just have to eat small food, because that’s all we have the ability to cut, that’s OK, as long as stupid, violent people are deprived of long knives, of course we’ll have to look next at all the other things stupid violent people might use as an alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/7 "2005-05-28T00:01:46Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I feel somewhat vindicated. What’s next? Baseball/cricket bats, sporks and Silly Putty? Blunt spoons, because they hurt more. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/8 "2005-05-28T00:04:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Rather face a thug with a knife, I can outrun a knife. Silly person, never bring a knife to a gun fight. OK, I’m gonna go hide before you throw rocks at me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/9 "2005-05-28T00:15:44Z")
My kung fu is strong. But a bullet is a bullet. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/10 "2005-05-28T00:19:50Z")
> [@glee](#): > > In what sense are you ‘vindicated’? > Gun control is indeed the solution (we have far less gun crime here than in the US). > > . But do you have less _violent_ crime? Do you really care if you are murdered by a knife as opposed to a gun? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/11 "2005-05-28T00:22:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But do you have less _violent_ crime? Do you really care if you are murdered by a knife as opposed to a gun? As **elucidator** has pointed out, it’s a bit easier to escape from a knife. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/12 "2005-05-28T00:32:06Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > As **elucidator** has pointed out, it’s a bit easier to escape from a knife. Sure- but dead is still dead…if the murder rate _from guns_ decreases but the overall rate stays the same, nothing has really been gained, has it? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/13 "2005-05-28T00:43:00Z")
I’ll try to pretend I’m serious for a bit. I don’t think this proposed ban will get of the ground. Knives are necessary in the kitchen. They are necessary in the local butcher shop. They serve a definite and well documented noncriminal purpose. I’d like to see someone carve a roast or a turkey with some little 3 inch knife. The point on the knife serves a purpose also. That’s why there are so many different types - drop point, pointy, etc. All for valid uses. Again, I don’t think this proposed ban has a chance. But, we could point to it as the dreaded slippery slope. England has very few guns compared to the U.S. and has stiff gun laws. So, bad people switch to knives. Now some people want to ban the knives. Looks like a slippery slope to me, but what do I know. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/14 "2005-05-28T00:49:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure- but dead is still dead…if the murder rate _from guns_ decreases but the overall rate stays the same, nothing has really been gained, has it? Cruising around [this site](http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Crime) enables me to tell you that the murder rate in the U.K. in 2000 was 0.01 per 1000 people, and in the U.S. in 1999 it was 0.04 per 1000 people. Assaults were also lower in the U.K., though not as markedly. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/15 "2005-05-28T05:05:59Z")
It is not about rate by country, but about the decrease or increase in the country that banned the guns. Has violent crime gone up or down? Has homocide gone up or down? In that country. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/16 "2005-05-28T08:01:38Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Cruising around [this site](http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Crime) enables me to tell you that the murder rate in the U.K. in 2000 was 0.01 per 1000 people, and in the U.S. in 1999 it was 0.04 per 1000 people. Assaults were also lower in the U.K., though not as markedly. Sure, but was it lower or higher before Gun Control? Lower, I’ll bet- although that was very long ago, I’ll admit. My point wasn’t whether or not the UK has lower murder rates than the USA (it currently has, I’ll admit, but the number of guns doesn’t _seem to be a factor). My point was- if_ a reduction in guns doesn’t net you a reduction in murder rate, has it netted anything positive? A “reduction in gun crimes” is meaningless. :rolleyes: In the areas that have had recent gun controls enacted, there doesn’t seem to be any significant overall reduction in violent crimes or murder. Dudes just turn to illegal guns or another weapon. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/17 "2005-05-28T08:05:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure- but dead is still dead…if the murder rate _from guns_ decreases but the overall rate stays the same, nothing has really been gained, has it? You really think there’s nobody in the world who would commit a crime if a gun were available, but would think twice about it if all he had was a knife? ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/18 "2005-05-28T08:17:09Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > It is not about rate by country, but about the decrease or increase in the country that banned the guns. > > Has violent crime gone up or down? Has homocide gone up or down? In that country. There was never any culture of gun ownership in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/19 "2005-05-28T09:11:41Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > But, we could point to it as the dreaded slippery slope. England has very few guns compared to the U.S. and has stiff gun laws. So, bad people switch to knives. Now some people want to ban the knives. Looks like a slippery slope to me, but what do I know. I can’t imagine this proposal going to law but just what slippery slope are you afraid of? The slippery slope to rocks being banned? ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827/20 "2005-05-28T09:20:32Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > [Apparently knife crime has gotten pretty bad in England](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm) > > Does anyone seriously think that this is a solution or enforceable? Your link doesnt say that knife crime is pretty bad, or common, or rising. It just says that violent crime (unspecified) is on the rise (which is itself [disputed](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4467569.stm) ), that kitchen knives are used in about half of all stabbings and that due to length of the blade they create serious wounds when used. Its this issue of wound severity that is prompting the call by these doctors not an epidemic of knife violence. Swords and other long bladed weapons are restricted for similar reasons in Australia and we’re not suffering from any significant amount of sword attacks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-not-serious-right/305827.md?page=2)