# They're really gonna do it again. Shutdown 2015! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 9, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467 "2015-09-09T22:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/101 "2015-09-23T13:20:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > This year, we apparently aren’t due to hit the debt ceiling until sometime in November, so if the wingnuts in the House want to go all Green Lantern on us and say, ‘we can win this one if we only have the willpower,’ we could have quite a long shutdown indeed. Ol’ Charlie’s stole the handle, and all that. I keep wondering if these shutdowns aren’t a coordinated effort to increase attrition and reduce the federal payroll without having to downsize in a more aggressive manner. On the other hand, maybe I’ve just been listening to too much AM radio. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/102 "2015-09-23T13:57:27Z")
Don’t the furloughed workers get backpay; i.e. the furlough becomes extra paid vacation? (Or is the furlough time subtracted from their normal vacation?) IOW, the GOP posturing to reduce spending actually leaves spending the same, but reduces government services. Google “Starve the Beast” to understand true GOP strategy: reducing spending in any but the longest term is actually _counter to their goals_. (Yes, I do realize that The Congressmen who [del]Hate[/del] Love America the Very Very Mostest™ are prattling that government workers should be made to suffer financially, but they don’t have the votes.) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/103 "2015-09-23T14:08:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > if the wingnuts in the House want to go all Green Lantern on us Odd, all their rings look [red](http://greenlantern.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Lantern_Corps)to me. (Actually, though, brown would be more appropriate, to represent butthurt rather than proper rage.) ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/104 "2015-09-23T14:18:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Don’t the furloughed workers get backpay; i.e. the furlough becomes extra paid vacation? (Or is the furlough time subtracted from their normal vacation?) IOW, the GOP posturing to reduce spending actually leaves spending the same, but reduces government services. Google “Starve the Beast” to understand true GOP strategy: reducing spending in any but the longest term is actually _counter to their goals_. > > (Yes, I do realize that The Congressmen who [del]Hate[/del] Love America the Very Very Mostest™ are prattling that government workers should be made to suffer financially, but they don’t have the votes.) Last time federal workers got their back pay with no reduction of vacation time, so yes the American public gave non-essential government employees a paid vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/105 "2015-09-23T14:35:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Don’t the furloughed workers get backpay I think that may have happened eventually. If so, costs incurred as a result of the income interruption were not reimbursed. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/106 "2015-09-23T14:55:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Don’t the furloughed workers get backpay; i.e. the furlough becomes extra paid vacation? (Or is the furlough time subtracted from their normal vacation?) In the shutdowns of 2013 and 1995-96\*, the furloughed workers got back pay for their involuntary vacations. In both cases, it was part of the budget deal that ended the furloughs. So (a) there’s no _guarantee_ that it’ll play out this way this time, since it takes _ad hoc_ legislation to make it happen, but (b) odds are good that it’ll be part of the ultimate GOP surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/107 "2015-09-23T15:07:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > One thing that crossed my mind this morning that’s mostly been forgotten is **why** the 2013 shutdown came to an end: we were about to hit the debt ceiling in the third week of October, and that’s what finally forced the GOP leaders to come to the table. > > This year, we apparently aren’t due to hit the debt ceiling until sometime in November, so if the wingnuts in the House want to go all Green Lantern on us and say, ‘we can win this one if we only have the willpower,’ we could have quite a long shutdown indeed. Ol’ Charlie’s stole the handle, and all that. > > I don’t think it’s _likely_ that we’ll have a shutdown that goes into November, but there’s nothing _stopping_ it from happening the way there was the last time. My sense of things is that (a) there will be a shutdown, and either (b) it will be resolved in about a week or less, or (c) it will go longer than the last one. > > I’m rooting for (b). I need a small vacation, but it don’t look like rain. I agree with your reasoning, but the Teahadists have shown time and again that they will fight any fight until until the bitter end, past the point when they’ve won. The sequester cuts were a Tea Party victory and are the current baseline budget. Instead of savoring their success they want to fight again, despite not having the votes to acheive their stated goals. It will take the threat of crashing the world economy to bring the Teahadists to the table. Not all of them will come on board then. Several Tea Party Congressbeings said publicly and for attribution during the last shutdown that the US missing a debt payment would be so bad, because mumble mumble. Reminds me of this quote from Dr. Strangelove: > [@General "Buck" Turgidson](#): > > Mr. President, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks. My opinion is that is if we go out, we’ll be out for the full 4-5 weeks. The Teahadists will stay in office no matter what, so why should they care? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/108 "2015-09-23T15:29:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Don’t the furloughed workers get backpay; i.e. the furlough becomes extra paid vacation? (Or is the furlough time subtracted from their normal vacation?) Yes, they do get backpay, I made the previous statement fully aware of that. I live in the DC region, so this area feels the effects of this more than the rest of the country, and when it happens it tends to be talked about in the local media a lot (as you would imagine). Anyway, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that just being out of work for a couple weeks leads workers to start sending out resumes in numbers much greater than typical. I think a lot of them are just casually looking because they have all this free time and just don’t know what to do with themselves; even so, some will just happen to find a better fit. ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/109 "2015-09-23T15:30:42Z")
If the GOP controlled house, defunds PP, and puts money into other Women’s Health Providers, and the Dems, who are in the minority ,( and elections count) refuses to allow money to go any where other than PP… How is it that the GOP is the one who shut the Gov. down, why doesn’t the Dems share any blame? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/110 "2015-09-23T15:32:55Z")
I forgot to emphaisize in the last post the it was something I read in _one_ article, and I believe it was in a local rag. I do not know where one would dig of valid statistics on this. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/111 "2015-09-23T16:01:46Z")
I doubt that anything will bring the Teahadists to the table. If we’re up against the debt ceiling, then Boehner will ignore the Hastert Rule, and he and \>30 comparatively sane House Republicans will join the 188 House Dems to pass a clean continuing resolution, or something close enough for, um, government work. I’m hoping this will happen sooner: that after the shutdown continues into the week of October 5, Boehner says to the Teahadists, “OK, you’ve had your fun, now we’re gonna end this thing,” and he and his 30 comparatively sane colleagues join the Dems in passing a clean CR. Boehner _can_ end this charade pretty much any time. It’s just a matter of how much of his caucus he’s willing to piss off, how soon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/112 "2015-09-23T16:19:30Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > If the GOP controlled house, defunds PP, and puts money into other Women’s Health Providers, and the Dems, who are in the minority ,( and elections count) refuses to allow money to go any where other than PP… > > How is it that the GOP is the one who shut the Gov. down, why doesn’t the Dems share any blame? And these “other Women’s Health Providers”, who might they be? Can we be assured that they have the experience and the established infrastructure of PP? What political or theological assurances would they need to provide to satisfy the Republicans? And just to be sure, you do know that the basis for this…the allegations of profiteering on fetal baby brains and such…you do know that its a lie, right? Or does that even matter? ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/113 "2015-09-23T16:35:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And these “other Women’s Health Providers”, who might they be? Can we be assured that they have the experience and the established infrastructure of PP? What political or theological assurances would they need to provide to satisfy the Republicans? > > And just to be sure, you do know that the basis for this…the allegations of profiteering on fetal baby brains and such…you do know that its a lie, right? Or does that even matter? No I do not KNOW it is a lie, And no it doesn’t matter, if the majority of those elected in the house, that generates all spending bills, thinks it needs cutting then why should the minority fight it, and be free and clear of responsibility … Elections Matter… we’ve heard that one a lot. And the other providers… they could be the clinics, that PP refers them to, so they can get the services that PP doesn’t provide… such as mammograms. Sorta cut out the middle man on that service. But still… If the Dems decide that is worth not allowing the bill to pass… should they not at least share the culpability? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/114 "2015-09-23T16:45:32Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Last time federal workers got their back pay with no reduction of vacation time, so yes the American public gave non-essential government employees a paid vacation. A paid vacation, during which they still had to pay food and rent, but had no income. Most supermarkets won’t let you “back pay” a frozen chicken. Things got pretty rough for a lot of government employees during the last shutdown, even if they eventually got paid. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/115 "2015-09-23T16:53:36Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > No I do not KNOW it is a lie, And no it doesn’t matter, if the majority of those elected in the house, that generates all spending bills, thinks it needs cutting then why should the minority fight it, and be free and clear of responsibility … Elections Matter… we’ve heard that one a lot. > > And the other providers… they could be the clinics, that PP refers them to, so they can get the services that PP doesn’t provide… such as mammograms. Sorta cut out the middle man on that service. > > But still… If the Dems decide that is worth not allowing the bill to pass… should they not at least share the culpability? An error is an error even if a million people think it is a good thing. One can not share culpability when in reality the representatives of the Republicans are following lies to make policy. It does matter indeed because eventually once many more do become aware of the truth the people will have to realize that they had been had and they will then pressure their congress critters to do the right thing or to vote them out of office. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/116 "2015-09-23T18:32:04Z")
I think you underestimate the human capacity to believe whatever we \*wish \*to be true, regardless of the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/117 "2015-09-23T18:57:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And these “other Women’s Health Providers”, who might they be? Can we be assured that they have the experience and the established infrastructure of PP? What political or theological assurances would they need to provide to satisfy the Republicans? The good old stalwart of republican theology - the market will fill that void. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/118 "2015-09-23T20:35:22Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > The good old stalwart of republican theology - the market will fill that void. :rolleyes: The invisible hand can give pelvic exams. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/119 "2015-09-23T20:48:56Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > No I do not KNOW it is a lie, It is. The GOP is motivating its gullible base with lies. They do this all the time. This is pretty much what FOX News does. > [@](#): > > And no it doesn’t matter, if the majority of those elected in the house, that generates all spending bills, thinks it needs cutting then why should the minority fight it, and be free and clear of responsibility … Elections Matter… we’ve heard that one a lot. Elections do matter. Which is why giving the power to shut down the government to idiots in charge of the GOP is a bad thing. > [@](#): > > And the other providers… they could be the clinics, that PP refers them to, so they can get the services that PP doesn’t provide… such as mammograms. Sorta cut out the middle man on that service. You don’t just go to the mammogram store and order up a mammogram. You get screened and referred there. That’s what PP does. Someone else would have to do that if PP went away. > [@](#): > > But still… If the Dems decide that is worth not allowing the bill to pass… should they not at least share the culpability? The Dem position is simple, _Planned Parenthood does real good in the country and should be funded._ The GOP position is simple as well,\* pretend this lying video is real, get outraged, and allow us to fulfill the policy goal of reducing the amount of birth control options women have.\* ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/120 "2015-09-24T13:31:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I just looked it up: it appears that Boehner and Nancy Pelosi have ignored the Hastert Rule the same amount of times over the same period of time, at least according to Wikipedia. > > Now, that doesn’t factor in whether you believe Pelosi put her speakership ahead of the national interest most of the time… You do know that the Hastert Rule is a Republican caucus policy, not a House procedural rule, and has no relevance to Pelosi’s actions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467.md?page=7)