# They're really gonna do it again. Shutdown 2015! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 9, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467 "2015-09-09T22:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/121 "2015-09-24T13:52:48Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > You do know that the Hastert Rule is a Republican caucus policy, not a House procedural rule, and has no relevance to Pelosi’s actions? I thought the question was the extent to which various Speakers have put their speakership ahead of national interests. I am not criticizing anyone for ignoring a procedural practice or policy. I’m pointing out the frequency of which two Speakers have acted contrary to the will of their respective caucuses. Of course it has relevance to Pelosi’s actions. She acted contrary to the will of her caucus the same number of times that Boehner did. In my book, that makes her and he about equal in the calculation of whether to defend his/her Speakership or serve the national interest in an unpopular way. And in each case we are talking about - both for Pelosi and Boehner - I think they did the right thing to disregard the extreme wings of their parties. The only reason to point out that the Hastert rule is a GOP caucus guideline would either to be pedantic and nit picky, or to imply that Boehner is worse than Pelosi when he acts contrary to the will of his caucus. Whichever your argument really is, they are both silly and not worth commenting on any further. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/122 "2015-09-24T14:07:21Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > If the GOP controlled house, defunds PP, and puts money into other Women’s Health Providers, and the Dems, who are in the minority ,( and elections count) refuses to allow money to go any where other than PP… > > How is it that the GOP is the one who shut the Gov. down, why doesn’t the Dems share any blame? Because on the SDMB nothing is ever the fault of Democrats. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/123 "2015-09-24T14:23:48Z")
No, no, **Tread** is right. If that actually happened, it would be the Dems’ fault. Of course, that would also be a world sufficiently different from our own that it’d be hard to relate that world’s Democratic and Republican parties to our own. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/124 "2015-09-24T14:29:05Z")
There are some who actually believe the sequester is the result of the Democrats’ stubborn refusal to defund Obamacare in the budget bill. Because for them nothing is ever the fault of the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/125 "2015-09-24T14:35:43Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > You do know that the Hastert Rule is a Republican caucus policy, not a House procedural rule, and has no relevance to Pelosi’s actions? [Pelosi was very much opposed to the Hastert Rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule) (which was a Gingrich invention, actually). > [@](#): > > In May 2007 Pelosi said, “I’m the Speaker of the House…I have to take into consideration something broader than the majority of the majority in the Democratic Caucus.”[16] She also said at that time, “I would encourage my colleagues not to be proposing resolutions that say ‘the majority of the majority does this or that. We have to talk it out, see what is possible to get a job done. And as I say, we do that together.”[16] Pelosi’s former Chief of Staff, George Crawford expanded upon this saying, “On the larger issue of the ‘majority of the majority,’ she has talked about that for a quite a while. She does want the minority party to engage in the legislative process…That’s the kind of Speakership she wants. [16] She violated the majority-of-the-majority rule seven times during her four-year speakership.[17]” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/126 "2015-09-24T14:58:07Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > But still… If the Dems decide that is worth not allowing the bill to pass… should they not at least share the culpability? They will share culpability, but you have to include two factors you are not considering: the status quo and the opinion of the American public. On the first, the status quo is funding for PP for non-abortion services. Any deviation from that is a change in policy. Requiring a change in policy to fund the government is objectively different from blocking a change in policy. On the second, something like \<40% of Americans support defunding PP, with somewhere around 60% opposed. That is just baseline opinion, without factoring in whether it’s important enough to shut down the government over. When you add these two factors in to your analysis, it’s pretty clear that the policy of “shut down the government unless we change public policy to defund PP” is likely to hurt the GOP more than the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/127 "2015-09-24T15:01:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because on the SDMB nothing is ever the fault of Democrats. > > Regards, > Shodan Care to point to any government shutdowns that came about from temper tantrums by Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/128 "2015-09-24T17:10:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You don’t just go to the mammogram store and order up a mammogram. You get screened and referred there. That’s what PP does. Someone else would have to do that if PP went away. > > .\* Oh… I did not realize that women’s health clinics, and hospitals could not perform a mammogram with out the approval of PP. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/129 "2015-09-24T17:39:38Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > Oh… I did not realize that women’s health clinics, and hospitals could not perform a mammogram with out the approval of PP. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/130 "2015-09-24T17:44:06Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > Oh… I did not realize that women’s health clinics, and hospitals could not perform a mammogram with out the approval of PP. You can go to a health clinic, but it won’t be low cost. You can go to PP, and get the initial screening, and referral, and help paying. Does that make more sense? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/131 "2015-09-24T19:33:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Care to point to any government shutdowns that came about from temper tantrums by Democrats? We’re hoping to avoid one. But I understand your way of thinking - Democrats want PP to traffic in dead babies as a matter of principle. Republicans don’t, and that is a temper tantrum. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/132 "2015-09-24T19:43:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We’re hoping to avoid one. > > But I understand your way of thinking - Democrats want PP to traffic in dead babies as a matter of principle. Republicans don’t, and that is a temper tantrum. It really doesn’t matter what the reason is. In the minds of voters, Republicans are the party of government shutdowns, just like voters believe that Democrats are the party of profligate spending. It doesn’t matter if neither of those axioms are true; they are the public perception, for good or bad. Republicans will own the shutdown, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/133 "2015-09-24T19:49:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Democrats want PP to traffic in dead babies as a matter of principle. Wow. Just … wow. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/134 "2015-09-24T19:54:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But I understand your way of thinking - Democrats want PP to traffic in dead babies as a matter of principle. This is one of the most intellectually dishonest posts I’ve ever read on this board. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/135 "2015-09-24T20:13:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Democrats want PP to traffic in dead babies as a matter of principle. Republicans don’t, and that is a temper tantrum. I don’t know which side is funnier: Dems defending the sale of fetal parts by saying a profit isn’t being made so the law isn’t broken so why is everyone grossed out and offended? Abortions and baby parts are totes cool you guys. or Pubs pretending fetal tissue research from abortion was invented yesterday. Thank god for these investigative heroes for uncovering this conspiracy! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/136 "2015-09-24T20:14:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We’re hoping to avoid one. > > But I understand your way of thinking - Democrats want PP to traffic in dead babies as a matter of principle. Republicans don’t, and that is a temper tantrum. > > Regards, > Shodan Two questions please: 1. Are you aware that those videos were doctored and didn’t show the sale of fetal tissue, but simply the donation and compensation for shipping and handling, and that Carly Fiorinna was very mistaken (or outfight lying) when she described that scene on during the debate? 2. Are you against using fetal tissue in medical research, when it is donated, and only shipping and handling costs are paid to the donating clinic? Can you answer that please? Bonus question: Does it bother you that Dr. Carson has done research on fetal tissue? Since, he obviously didn’t think it was wrong then, yet he wants to defund PP now, for doing exactly what got the tissue he used? ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/137 "2015-09-24T20:17:04Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Last time federal workers got their back pay with no reduction of vacation time, so yes the American public gave non-essential government employees a paid vacation. > [@Miller](#): > > A paid vacation, during which they still had to pay food and rent, but had no income. Most supermarkets won’t let you “back pay” a frozen chicken. Things got pretty rough for a lot of government employees during the last shutdown, even if they eventually got paid. I am a federal government employee, and was one in 2013 so you aren’t telling me anything I don’t already know. I also got to witness several co-workers permanently lose their jobs during the last shutdown, for reasons far too complicated to detail here. When we came back, they had three days to close down their work and pack up. Good times. I will never vote for a Republican again in my life, and am teaching my children to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/138 "2015-09-24T21:14:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But I understand your way of thinking - Democrats want PP to traffic in dead babies as a matter of principle. Republicans don’t, and that is a temper tantrum. Turns out the Fox News traffic in lying is much more profitable. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/139 "2015-09-24T21:40:35Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > No I do not KNOW it is a lie, And no it doesn’t matter, if the majority of those elected in the house, that generates all spending bills, thinks it needs cutting then why should the minority fight it, and be free and clear of responsibility … Elections Matter… we’ve heard that one a lot. … I’ve not studied your prior posts, so pardon me if you’ve already explained this, but this post did catch my attention. Are you saying that you don’t know if the PP profiteering allegation is a lie? Are you saying that even if it is a lie, the lie doesn’t matter? And, assuming that PP is ideally configured to provide services mandated for Obamacare, the remedy you propose is that another organization, presumably equivalent to PP in all but the name, be constructed? It might be … interesting to read your newsletter! :rolleyes: Let’s start with your opining about the Congressional majority with no interest in knowing whether its case is based on a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467/140 "2015-09-24T21:44:17Z")
That damn doctored video just keeps coming back. My cousin’s kid was diagnosed with neuroblastoma when he was three. After fetal tissue was used in his surgery he has survived and beaten the cancer. He has just turned eleven. Not one excuse will change my mind that it is a necessary material in curing disease. And no, Satan doesn’t own and operate PP either. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theyre-really-gonna-do-it-again-shutdown-2015/730467.md?page=8)