Thimerosal/autism link futher severed.

[Flutterby]

@Ca3799

The only thing I can contribute to the MMR question is that it is recommended that all women of child bearing age who have low titers to the R portion get revaccinated because Rubella during pregnancy causes devastating birth defects. These women ususally get identified at the OB-GYN’s office.

That was me, only they found I was low when I was pregnant and receved a letter telling me to get it done after my son was born. (I did get it, at the same time he got his actually… which meant I didn’t need to get it just before Christmas because of the measles running its way through the colleges/my age group because the mid-twenties crowd only got one shot as a kid, not two like they do now).

One of my friends is an anti-vaxxer. I don’t think she’s ever cited Autism as a reason though, mainly she was concerned about other reactions and didn’t feel it was necessary to have it done. She flipped out when her SO took their daughter to be vaccinated when she wasn’t around, but I don’t think her son is. It’s one thing we agree to disagree on and by mutual consent don’t discuss. It’s also a topic that is verboten on the parenting boards I am a member of.

[Ferret_Herder]

@Flutterby

(I did get it, at the same time he got his actually… which meant I didn’t need to get it just before Christmas because of the measles running its way through the colleges/my age group because the mid-twenties crowd only got one shot as a kid, not two like they do now).

Ah, there we go. I got one MMR as a child and no booster until college.

The nurse at the ER when I broke my wrist said something about how frequently you’re supposed to get diphtheria/tetanus vaccinations but heck if I can recall how frequently that is now. She ended up not thinking it was necessary to do one on the spot, though I am overdue.

[essell]

@Ca3799

The only thing I can contribute to the MMR question is that it is recommended that all women of child bearing age who have low titers to the R portion get revaccinated because Rubella during pregnancy causes devastating birth defects. These women ususally get identified at the OB-GYN’s office.

Can cause devastating birth defects.
I was born to a mother who had Rubella during pregnancy, the doctors recommended abortion.

And I’m fine. Mostly.

[Una_Persson]

Topical link: Genetic glitch raises autism risk - http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/01/09/autism.gene.ap/index.html

[Triskadecamus]

Wow.

I was misled by the thread title!

Since, to the best of my knowledge, the “link” between Thimerosal and autism was that there was no causation, I was expecting a report that Thimerosal was found to cure Autism!

In Denmark, where they keep very detailed public health records, rates for Autism among those who had never been vaccinated were statistically equivalent to those who had had normal vaccination schedules. That study was several years old, and covered thousands of children, over decades. Similar studies done in the Netherlands were also unable to show any statistical trend involving neurological disease, and vaccinations. Diseases which were associated with the targets of vaccination were, of course, much more prevalent.

Tris

[Moirai]

@Ferret Herder

Ah, there we go. I got one MMR as a child and no booster until college.

The nurse at the ER when I broke my wrist said something about how frequently you’re supposed to get diphtheria/tetanus vaccinations but heck if I can recall how frequently that is now. She ended up not thinking it was necessary to do one on the spot, though I am overdue.

IIRC, tetanus is every 10 years. I had to get a booster after an accident involving deep glass cuts in my hand. I tried to argue that I had been nowhere near a rusty nail, but it didn’t work. 46 stitches in my hand, and I was more afraid of getting a shot… :rolleyes:

[Indygrrl]

@MissGypsy

Jenny McCarthy is, as always, a raving idiot. I’m sad and embarrassed to see her acting as a spokesperson for parents of autistic children.
.

I’m also a parent of an autistic child. I read the Jenny McCarthy book and the thing that pissed me off most were her claims that she “cured” her son of autism. If everything prior to that didn’t scream “bullshit!” that claim certainly did.

[SisterCoyote]

Thanks for the answers, Shodan and Ferret Herder. As I said, it was more curiosity raised by the thread than anything else.

@EJsGirl

IIRC, tetanus is every 10 years. I had to get a booster after an accident involving deep glass cuts in my hand. I tried to argue that I had been nowhere near a rusty nail, but it didn’t work. 46 stitches in my hand, and I was more afraid of getting a shot… :rolleyes:

It is 10 years. It used to be eight. My usual theory is that if I can’t remember the last time I had one done, it’s probably time (since I almost always end up having the tetanus shot for a specific reason, such as you mention here, and can therefore remember at least the year it was done.)

(at risk of hijacking the thread) I also don’t blame you for being more afraid of getting the tetanus shot. They hurt.

[Jackmannii]

By the way, I can’t let a Pit opportunity go by without mentioning perhaps the most rabid, drooling opponent of vaccination on the Internet today, “columnist” Mike Adams of NewsTarget.

Adams has been cranking out antivax nonsense for a good while now, most recently informing us how the HPV vaccine Gardasil is a Big Pharma plot against innocent young womanhood. His latest diatribe is a good example of how even the most compelling facts can’t make a dent in committed lunacy.

Adams: “Notice that when mercury was removed from vaccines (which is not entirely true, by the way, bringing into question yet more details about this study), the rates of autism did not drop? This means the vaccines remain dangerous to children. Autism continued to climb right alongside vaccination rates, indicating the possibility that something in the vaccines (or a combination of various chemicals) may very well be responsible for the increase.”

Got that? I know, the illogic is dizzying. All along Adams and his fellow Purveyors of Doom have been doggedly telling us that thimerosal in vaccines was the cause of autism. That link has now been debunked so thoroughly that even the most gullible of their followers have trouble swallowing it. So now Adams announces that, well, even if it wasn’t thimerosal, well maybe it was anyway, or gosh, something else in vaccines must be responsible! It must be vaccines, because we hate vaccines as Symbols of the Medical Establishment!!!

Adams: “The truth is that scientists have no idea what’s causing autism.”

See the previous link regarding genetic causes of autism, which are increasingly being discovered and explained. Adams either is ignorant of this, or more likely refuses to acknowledge the genetic link because it can’t be blamed on Big Pharma or his other pet “NewsTargets”.

Adams spends the rest of his time expounding on tired and irrelevant themes, including You Can’t Trust Any Research (funny, that never has stopped him from selectively quoting research that he thinks supports his views), yammering about Vioxx etc etc. He also doesn’t hesitate to try to impugn the integrity of the researchers who issued the latest study:

Adams: "You see, the relevant question in this discussion is not simply whether mercury-containing vaccines cause autism. The question at hand is whether we can even trust the “science” being conducted on this subject. Do the researchers who conducted this study have any financial ties to the manufacturers of those vaccines? Have they received any speaking fees? Do they own stock in those companies? If so, this completely discredits their research due to obvious conflicts of interest.

Ooo, tell us about these “conflicts of interest”, Mike.

Adams: “Now, I don’t have any direct evidence that the researchers in this particular mercury vaccine study were corrupted or influenced by Big Pharma, but as an honest, independent think who knows the truth about drug companies, the mainstream media and the profit motive behind much of the Science appearing in the press today, I maintain a default position of skepticism when it comes to reading these studies.”

We may be sure that if Mike could show us that Big Pharma Stooges produced this study, he’d be proclaiming it from the rooftops. He can’t show any such conflicts, but that doesn’t stop him from assaulting the integrity of the researchers anyway.

Finally, there’s this gem:

Adams: “One point worth mentioning here is that there is absolutely no requirement to have any real understanding of science, medicine, chemistry or physics to graduate from a top-notch journalism school.”

Great point, Mike. There’s also no requirement to have any real understanding of science in order to function as an antivax hack on the Internet, something you’ve once again demonstrated.

Let’s see…lack of scientific understanding, groundless personal attacks in lieu of reasoning, irrelevancies, paranoid fearmongering…sounds like another classic in the Antivax Hall of Shame.

[fessie]

Thought you guys would want to know about this development.

@David Kirby's blog via Huffington Post

After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.

The unprecedented concession was filed on November 9, and sealed to protect the plaintiff’s identify. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to the case.

The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal “Vaccine Court,” was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services, the “defendant” in all Vaccine Court cases.

The child’s claim against the government – that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism – was supposed to be one of three “test cases” for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and “concluded that compensation is appropriate.”

<snip>
In its written concession, the government said the child had a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder that was “aggravated” by her shots, and which ultimately resulted in an ASD diagnosis.

“The vaccinations received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder,” the concession says, “which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of ASD.”

I think this is the full text of the findings, although it’s from Dan Olmsted’s blog and I know his credentials are questionable. I can’t find it anywhere else, though.

[DanBlather]

@Auntbeast

I really feel for the parents of autistic children. I can not fathom the frustration they must endure. I understand the desperation to help your child. Please look for logic, not miracle cures and flim-flam.

But for the love of all things holy, will people PLEASE stop calling me and suggesting my child is autistic, or of having a wheat allergy or whatever the “Special Report” of the week is? She’s speech delayed. They evaluated her. She shows no signs of having any of those issues. They attribute it to stubbornness. Not allergies, not autism, not mental retardation, not any of the crap.

I think I like your daughter: “I’ll speak when I’m ready”.

It reminds me of the joke about the kid who never spoke a word until he was 11 when he said: “The soup is cold”.

The parents were astonished and asked: “You can talk, why didn’t you say anything before?”

The kid replied: “Up til now everything was OK”.

[red_awning]

I’ve had all my kids vaccinated reluctantly and I do think that vaccinations are not the cause of autism per se but I do think that anything that is mandated and not researched by the parents themselves is suspect. Maybe the reason that parents have started blaming the vaccine is because they can say its not their fault they were forcd to do it.

One thing I’ve noticed about kids and illness though is how fast parents and doctors will load their kids up with antibiotics and have the kids in the ER all night. I stopped giving my kids amoxycillin because I realized that if the children didn’t take the entire dosage, that the results could be the opposite, actually weakening the immune system. Well most kids I know spit out the medicine. So I thought “well if they are spitting out most of it then they aren’t taking it all” so I scrapped using it.

I have to say that my kids never get sick. Other parents I know always have a sick kid and a bottle of antibiotics in the fridge. My kids eat dirt and are fine. So I think a large part of the problem with kids and health today is that we try to protect them too much and stop them from building natural defenses against disease.

[JohnT]

@Little Plastic Ninja

JK Rowling was the shooter on the grassy knoll?

@Marley23

Holy fuck - the bullet really WAS magic!

Now you see… this is why this place is worth $15/year. You just don’t get responses like this at IMDB or Off-Topic.

Thanks for the laugh, y’all.

[Miss_Purl_McKnittington]

@red_awning

I stopped giving my kids amoxycillin because I realized that if the children didn’t take the entire dosage, that the results could be the opposite, actually weakening the immune system. Well most kids I know spit out the medicine. So I thought “well if they are spitting out most of it then they aren’t taking it all” so I scrapped using it.

Do you have a cite for this? I know if you don’t complete a course of antibiotics, you might not completely kill the infection, despite feeling perfectly well. But I’ve never heard of an immune system being weakened from taking antibiotics. It sounds ridiculous, quite honestly.

[red_awning]

Well not “weaking it” that might be poor wording on my part but in a way yes…I didn’t think it was ridiculous. I thought it was common knowledge that if you didn’t take antibiotics properly you could cause major problems with your ability to fight off infection in the future. Shrugs.

The Causes of Antibiotic Resistance
A major cause of resistance is believed to be overuse or inappropriate use of drugs such as antibiotics, in preventing or treating infections in people, animals and plants. Germs constantly adapt to their environment and have the ability to take on the characteristics of other germs. When antibiotics are used inappropriately, the weak bacteria are killed, while the stronger, more resistant ones survive and multiply. Germs that develop resistance to one antibiotic have the ability to develop resistance to another antibiotic. This is called cross-resistance.

Links have also been made between giving drugs to animals and the development of resistance in humans. Drugs are often given to food-producing animals to treat and prevent infections in the agri-food industry and to promote growth. Products are also sprayed on fruit trees to prevent or control disease. These can then be transferred to humans in meat, milk, fruit or drinking water, adding to the resistance problem. An example of this is drug-resistant Salmonella, which can be transferred from animals to humans through the food chain.

Other factors that cause resistance include an incorrect diagnosis that results in an inappropriate drug being prescribed, or not taking an antibiotic prescription according to the instructions; for example, not taking all of a prescription.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/iyh-vsv/med/antibio_e.html
And this

So, the next time you’re tempted to beg for a prescription for antibiotics, remember this: Every pill you swallow disperses pretty much everywhere. Some useful bacteria will be killed along with the bad, leaving vacant patches that invite colonization by any passing germ. Think crabgrass or Kudzu. And even if that is not a problem for basically healthy you, the antibiotic-resistant bacteria that you might spread in a cough or a kiss could be trouble for your infant, your friend getting chemo, or anybody with an immune system that’s been suppressed by age or illness.

Sick of Getting Sick? Embrace Your Inner Bacteria!

[Jonathan_Chance]

@fessie

Thought you guys would want to know about this development.

I think this is the full text of the findings, although it’s from Dan Olmsted’s blog and I know his credentials are questionable. I can’t find it anywhere else, though.

Interesting enough that my paper is working on some info from it. We’ve got the entire text of the court case at this point and are in the process of going through it.

The valley in which I live (in rural Ohio) is environmentally unfriendly AND has an autism rate WAY above the national average. That makes it a matter of strong interest to the community.

[gfloyd]

Ear infections without antibiotics can lead to hearing damage. Eye infections without antibiotics can lead to blindness.

The big issue is people not finishing all the doses, taking them for three days instead of ten. What happens is that the weak bacteria die first, then the stronger ones later on. If you stop taking them when only the weak ones are dead, if you spread the infection, you are passing on only the strongest, hardest to kill bacteria.

I agree that antibiotics need to be prescribed only when necessary and that people need to follow the freaking directions, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t useful. And believe, I understand about drug resistant disease. I’m a graduate student in organic chemistry. We talk all the time about finding new drugs, ones that are active against Vinctamicin resistant strains. Vinctamicin is the last line of defense. If what you have is resistant to it, there is nothing else by prayer and hope. And there are strains that are resistant to it. More and more all the time. But not giving a sick kid amoxycillin makes not sense to me.

I suffered from chronic ear infections as a child. My mother, who is a nurse and feels like I do about antibiotics, says that I would most likely have been hearing impaired in the days before antibiotics. And I got amoxycillin resistant strains. My parents had to tract down child size doses of augmenton when no one carried them. And they made me take all of my medicine. The only thing that I can ever remember spitting out was Vicks 44, as that stuff is freaking vile. But never antibiotics.

[red_awning]

Ear infections can also kill you. But I have never had a problem. Fever and severe infection are things I don’t play with. But honestly my youngest son is seven years old and has never in his life taken an antibiotic. He never gets sick. My oldest who took antibiotics and used to spit them out is the only one who will occassional catch a cold if he’s been out in the rain on a bitter day. My second son is 12 and has never taken anti biotics and never been sick either.

I have many friends who give their kids anitbiotics and all of them have moved straight throught the series getting sicker and sicker each time they got an infection. TWO different girls from two entirely different families had to be hospitalized for kidney infections.

Maybe I’m just suspicious but dont’ you think its strange that my kids never get sick? I’m talking not even the common cold?

[Labrador_Deceiver]

@red_awning

Ear infections can also kill you. But I have never had a problem. Fever and severe infection are things I don’t play with. But honestly my youngest son is seven years old and has never in his life taken an antibiotic. He never gets sick. My oldest who took antibiotics and used to spit them out is the only one who will occassional catch a cold if he’s been out in the rain on a bitter day. My second son is 12 and has never taken anti biotics and never been sick either.

I have many friends who give their kids anitbiotics and all of them have moved straight throught the series getting sicker and sicker each time they got an infection. TWO different girls from two entirely different families had to be hospitalized for kidney infections.

Maybe I’m just suspicious but dont’ you think its strange that my kids never get sick? I’m talking not even the common cold?

I think you’re failing to recognize the difference between a virus and a bacterial infection.

[fessie]

Letting them eat dirt probably helps, red_awning - my husband’s done some work with soils and says the dirt in our backyards is just loaded with bacteria (someone smarter will probably come along and clarify that).

Could it also be related to your older child being the first one to venture into kiddie social circles? I swear, I never used to get sick - but now that I have twins in preschool, it’s a BIG problem. Could younger children somehow benefit from their siblings’ exposure?

The other thing is, doctors hand out antibiotics like candy. It took months for my daughter’s pediatrician to realize she had asthma. Prior to that, she prescribed round after round of antibiotics. I wonder if your friends’ kids who are always on meds are just completely misdiagnosed?