See, woman at it again! LOL
[QUOTE=red_awning]
WHy is it that widdle baby coughing all over his pampers isn’t “anecdotal” but my experience with people I know and 14 years of parenting is.
Most children don’t die of diseases like measles and whooping cough. I do think that vaccines are useful. I’ve already stated that I’m not against vaccines. But one kid dying isn’t that big of a deal.
[/QUOTE]
I realize that you’re a guest and not worth the full invective, but a hearty fuck off to your bullshit attitude about one child dying not being “that big of a deal” AND to your bullshit, ignorant attitude about the overprescription of antibiotics.
In 1994, I lost my month-old son to group B strep infection. His was a needless death that could have been prevented by prophylactic antibiotics, a treatment that is well-known and well-documented both anecdotally and in the literature.
But what’s one kid dying, more or less, as long as doctors don’t prescribe too many antibiotics, right, you ignorant fuck?
Robin
Exhibit B. Get a therapist. This is a practical conversation. Not an episode of Montel.
[QUOTE=red_awning]
See, woman at it again! LOL
[/QUOTE]
Well, it’s pretty clear you’re trolling. Bye bye.
[coming in with full invective and tools to deal with a troll]
Dang, to late! He is banned now.
[Puts away the iron maiden and the rack]
[QUOTE=Indygrrl]
I’m also a parent of an autistic child. I read the Jenny McCarthy book and the thing that pissed me off most were her claims that she “cured” her son of autism. If everything prior to that didn’t scream “bullshit!” that claim certainly did.
[/QUOTE]
Lots of things she said did not add up.
I heard varying stories of how her son got his diagnosis- that she looked it up on-line and sought a diagnosis to confirm her suspicions and also that the first she heard of it was when it was mentioned (diagnosed?) by a particular doctor during an office visit. She also mentioned her son’s seizures (certainly not a hallmark of an autism diagnosis), which I think she also ‘cured’ somehow.
I agree with the posters who are sympathetic towards the parents. It’s entirely plausible that vaccines could be a leading factor in cases of autism. They didn’t pull this idea out of the aether; they initially read about it in a peer reviewed scientific journal. This gave them something tangible to focus their anger and frustration on, and it would be a complete non-issue were it not for the sad fact that they are endangering the lives of their children by withholding the vaccines. We tend to forget about the importance of vaccines in this day in age. I’ve personally never seen a case of measles, mumps or rubella (except on Wikipedia).
I find it most unfortunate that we cannot force the parents to have their children vaccinated. While it was pointed out that they can refuse on moral grounds, the word “moral” is used in a very backwards sense here. IIRC, children have started to come down with these illnesses. Has anyone considered taking a parent of such a child to court in order to set a legal precedent? I wouldn’t advocate taking all of them to court because it’s even worse for the kids to be removed from their families, but it seems plausible to me that you can argue that refusing to have your kids vaccinated is unethical and tantamount to neglect. I would love to hear the arguments presented to the SCOTUS for each side.
[QUOTE=Marienee]
Just for entertainment, how far does this go for you? Many adults are no longer protected by their childhood vaxes against, say, diptheria and tetanus after all, titers tend to go down with age on some of the others, and most adults are not vaxed at all against, say, Hepatitis, flu, HPV, et al.
Do they also have an obligation to look out for the community – should we have mandatory vaxing for adults?
[/QUOTE]
Using your examples - if you take away diseases that are particularly serious for children (i.e. diptheria), non-communicable (tetanus), or for which protective means exist outside of vaccination (i.e. HPV, hepatitis B) there’s nothing left on your list except influenza. It would be a bit difficult to mandate that one, in part because it’s difficult to predict with precision which strains of flu are going to be active in any one season (this year, in contrast to other recent seasons, provides a good example of limits on the vaccine’s protection).
Another big factor to consider is that children, far more than adults, are herded into close quarters through day care and school. Epidemics get started much more easily in these settings. One group of adults for which vaccinations are mandated (the military) has this susceptibility factor in common with children.
There are other adults for whom vaccinations are mandated (i.e. in health care settings in which elderly and debilitated people could be harmed by diseases like the flu transmitted through health care workers).
[QUOTE=MsRobyn]
In 1994, I lost my month-old son to group B strep infection. His was a needless death that could have been prevented by prophylactic antibiotics, a treatment that is well-known and well-documented both anecdotally and in the literature.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, MsRobyn. That’s a terrible thing to have to go through.
Here’s an article in today’s NY Times about parents who don’t want to vaccinate and stupid legislative efforts to make it easier for parents to get religious and philosphical vaccine exemptions for their kids.
People are arguing the right not vaccinate based on religion even though no religion (that I know of) frowns on vaccination. I find these efforts disgusting. Religious rights are not boundaryless and never have been. The public has every right to demand that parents vaccinate their children in the same way that there is a vested in interest making sure kids get educated and and protected from abuse.
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus]
Wow.
I was misled by the thread title!
Since, to the best of my knowledge, the “link” between Thimerosal and autism was that there was no causation, I was expecting a report that Thimerosal was found to cure Autism!
In Denmark, where they keep very detailed public health records, rates for Autism among those who had never been vaccinated were statistically equivalent to those who had had normal vaccination schedules. That study was several years old, and covered thousands of children, over decades. Similar studies done in the Netherlands were also unable to show any statistical trend involving neurological disease, and vaccinations. Diseases which were associated with the targets of vaccination were, of course, much more prevalent.
Tris
[/QUOTE]
I don’t have a link, but I remember reading last year about the fact that Denmark (among other countries) never had thimerosol in their vaccines. In spite of this, the rate of increase of cases of autism there has been similar to the rest of the world. On the face of it, that would appear to let thimerosol off the hook, although I’m sure anti-vacs would be inclined to claim that vaccines themselves cause autism. :rolleyes:
Those parents who morally object to vaccinations should be responsible for educating their children. The presence of unvaccinated children is harmful to others. And those children will be bringing lawsuits next.
Jack Mannii, I think Don Imus at least qualified his stance in recent years. He would not claim for certain that thermasol was the cause of autism. (And his wife Dierdre certain deserves more than just the label of “trophy wife.” He’s an old coot and she’s young and attractive, but she works hard for good causes including the ranch for children with cancer. I think she has been the redeeming factor in his life and she just still has a lot of work to do.
Is that mandated by the Supremes? Where did you get this information? Just curious.
When was this article written? I notice that you use the present tense. He said this recently? Cite?
You don’t need the quotes around advocate. His work with the National Resources Defense Counsel alone removes all doubt. Why try to distort the facts? Or is that your way of getting out the “truth”?
Sen. John McCain has jumped into this:
And you can believe him, because he’s a straight-talking maverick.
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
Using your examples - if you take away diseases that are particularly serious for children (i.e. diptheria), non-communicable (tetanus), or for which protective means exist outside of vaccination (i.e. HPV, hepatitis B) there’s nothing left on your list except influenza. It would be a bit difficult to mandate that one, in part because it’s difficult to predict with precision which strains of flu are going to be active in any one season (this year, in contrast to other recent seasons, provides a good example of limits on the vaccine’s protection).
[/QUOTE]
Well, I thought the argument we were talking about was bout the danger to the community by carriers, not the danger to the individual. And I think you were the one who brought up the flu shot – old people in Japan, yes?
So if we include the whole range of vaxes and we consider that adults’ titers are generally low to wiped out by say 35 (not to mention the ones not invented yet when now-adults were kids)…why shouldn’t adults be required to have boosters of the old ones and a round of the new ones, too?
Your citation of Hep B is sort of ironic on a personal level, I walked out of doctor’s office with my infant in arms weeping after literally being screamed at by a doctor for having simply asked why the Hep B couldn’t wait until he was 3 months old. Since he was at exactly zero risk for Hep B. In the end he got the Hep B, which had been my plan all along. But it was from another doctor, I don’t require being screamed at.
/aside
When my kids started getting out more often and we ALL started getting sick more often (and still are, I’ve been sick most of this winter), it occurred to me that the old Biblical story of King Herod killing all the 2-yr-olds maybe did really happen, even if it wasn’t because he was trying to off baby Jesus — the man might have been trying to stem a plague!