# Things are getting better. That's what I told my daughter.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 5, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990 "2006-12-05T21:40:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/201 "2006-12-07T22:44:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Sorry, I don’t buy it. Smells like bullshit to me.
Why? Are you in disbelief that someone could be so blatantly racist? Or that they would be so rude? Or that **Biggirl’s** daughter called her up in tears because she’d been addressed as “you people”? What in particular has got you smelling bullshit?
Because I know there are people who could be so blatantly racist.
Because I know there are people who could be so rude (if not ruder).
And I know that **Biggirl** would not start a thread full of lies. Maybe she did not get the conversation verbatim, but I do not think she’s exaggerating the jist of the Fucking Bitch’s diatribe. No, I don’t personally know **Biggirl** (though I wish I did). But her posting history has not shown her to be a troll or an attention-whore.
The conversation sounds crazy, but you know what? I’ve been privy to even crazier conversations. And I used to work in retail, where a lot of these crazy conversations seem to occur.
So unless you have real reason to believe that **Biggirl** is a bold-faced liar, shut the hell up.
---
### Author:  [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/202 "2006-12-07T22:47:17Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01]
I’m still wondering why it even matters what the person meant. Like I said in post 167, the customer was rude and being a bitch, **biggirl** ’s daughter was polite and professional. It is abundantly clear which one is the better person. Part of dealing with the public is dealing with rude people and the daughter handled herself better than almost every other service person I’ve ever worked with.
Why all the fuss over trying to interpret what the bitchy customer meant?
[/QUOTE]
Because a racist asshole is worst than a regular asshole? I’m not a person of color\* but I think that would be the fuss in this case.
\*I hate this phrase very, very much. I’m not a person of color because I’m a fucking redhead and almost translucent, not because I’m white. I think the phrase may be falling out of favor though. :fingers crossed:
---
### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/203 "2006-12-07T23:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01]
Why all the fuss over trying to interpret what the bitchy customer meant?
[/QUOTE]
Because racism is worse than mere rudeness.
In any case, there SHOULDN’T be an argument over what the customer meant. **Biggirl** ’s daughter, who we have no reason to doubt, clearly heard it as a racist remark. Many posters, both white and black, have said it’s a racist remark. There’s even an example from _Family Guy_ demonstrating that it’s a **commonly known** racist remark, not some obscure insult like “macaca”.
The never-ending insinuations that \*\*Biggirl \*\* and her daughter are misinterpreting what was said are both patronizing and insulting.
---
### Author:  [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/204 "2006-12-07T23:05:20Z")
[QUOTE=stretch]
Because a racist asshole is worst than a regular asshole? I’m not a person of color\* but I think that would be the fuss in this case.
\*I hate this phrase very, very much. I’m not a person of color because I’m a fucking redhead and almost translucent, not because I’m white. I think the phrase may be falling out of favor though. :fingers crossed:
[/QUOTE]
That I can see and agree that it is. I feel the same way about people that use homophobic language when they are rude to me. The fuss I refer to are the statements that people are apologizing for the customer or that they are themselves racist in saying that there are other possible interpretations of the rudeness. As well as the fuss on the other side, implying that there is no need to be so angry about the situation. Why can it not enough that we agree that the customer was being rude and was in the wrong, even if we disagree that it is 100% clear in what way she was rude? That is the source of my confusion.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/205 "2006-12-07T23:07:23Z")
[QUOTE=monstro]
Why? Are you in disbelief that someone could be so blatantly racist? Or that they would be so rude? Or that **Biggirl’s** daughter called her up in tears because she’d been addressed as “you people”? What in particular has got you smelling bullshit?
.
[/QUOTE]
What in particular has me smelling bullshit? Let me quote my post again\*"This is the SDMB, Biggirl. If you come here and post just about anything other than “I like fluffy bunnies” dudes are going to ask you to back it up. You have over 8000 posts, so you should know this. It ain’t just you Biggirl- it’s every freaken poster that has ever stuck their nose in, including Cecil himself. Everyone has to “dance a jig” in order to be beleived about everything that has a semblence of fact. Your daughter had a bad experience. Fine. But you don’t get to whine about being asked for more and better information about the incident. You’ve been around long enough to know that 90% of all PIT rants have either come back to bite the PITer on the ass or have had doubters and naysayers. So, I assume you knew this- before you posted a PIT rant, right? Why then are you acting shocked, suprised and resentful about something you had to know would come to pass? \* "
NOT “Are you in disbelief that someone could be so blatantly racist?”
NOT “Or that they would be so rude?”
NOT “Or that Biggirl’s daughter called her up in tears because she’d been addressed as “you people”?”
All those are quite possible.
What has me smelling bullshit is that **Biggirl** - a long-time regular poster- can be so damn upset when her PIT thread has a few questions and doubts, as if she hasn’t seen that exact same thing happen over and over and over andoverandover here. It’s like "WHATTHEFUCK! The Sun is rising in the East! Damn, what a shock! :eek: " :rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/206 "2006-12-07T23:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
What has me smelling bullshit is that **Biggirl** - a long-time regular poster- can be so damn upset when her PIT thread has a few questions and doubts, as if she hasn’t seen that exact same thing happen over and over and over andoverandover here. It’s like "WHATTHEFUCK! The Sun is rising in the East! Damn, what a shock! :eek: " :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
I don’t believe you. You do not smell bullshit at all. You are just yanking my chain. You understand my resentment perfectly. You’re just being a whiny ass.
---
### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/207 "2006-12-07T23:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
That’s funny because I perceived the thread going like this:
Me: A racist made my daughter cry.
A very few in the thread: Really? Well, if you tilt your head just so and squint your eyes, that’s doesn’t look racist at all.
Me: It was racist here’s why. And I don’t like the fact that I had to do a little jig in order to prove it to you.
One snarky individual: Well, why didn’t you just say that in the first place?
Me (no stranger to snark): Why did I _have_ to say that in the first place? It was very clear from the OP. The fact that I even had to dance the jig upsets me. There are pretty naive people out there.
One snarky individual: Fuck you.
You think this thread makes you sad? And after I told my daughter things are getting better too.
[/QUOTE]
Nice attempt at twisting the facts. You gave a vague recap of an exchange your daughter had at work and I said that it **COULD** have been a non-racist rant on the part of the customer, based on what you said. You then post another version of the exchange, which made it clear to the READERS that you obviously didn’t reach with your first post…you know…the one you posted on a _message board_…and I agreed it sounded like a racist rant against your daughter. The whole point of my initial post was that you didn’t make it clear based on the examples you put out there. There is where my frustration was coming from. Not that I didn’t believe you, not that your daughter is an idiot…simply that you didn’t offer examples that sounded racist as opposed to a general rude customer rant.
> [@](#):
>
> I can understand that if you’re a person of color you would think that it’s a racial slur, but _from the information you gave us here_, I can **also** see how the rant was directed at low-level clerk people who are inadequately trained and don’t give a fuck about customer service. **Not that I’m accusing your kid of being any of those things.** I can just see how the bitch **could** be pitched one way and received another way entirely.
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > "She kept calling me ‘YOU people’.
> > ‘YOU people are all the same.’
> > ‘YOU people never know what the hell you’re doing.’
All of those could have been directed at the all-purpose Inept Clerk Punching Bag during the holidays.
Once you posted the second version of the exchange
> [@](#):
>
> Customer: Of course YOU people would wear a piece of crap like that.
>
> Customer: Of course I want one receipt, I don’t know how it is YOU people shop but I don’t walk around with thousands of receipts.
>
> Customer: I don’t even know why they let YOU people behind a cash register! YOU people may like to give gifts as classless as that but I would never do such a thing. Just take everything back!
and accused me and others who didn’t initially see the racism, you called us naive.
That’s when I expressed my frustration with you for leaving out the details that were germane to understanding the issue.
Then _you_ started with the insulting accusations.
I never said your daughter was oversensitive and I never said she couldn’t tell the difference between racism and general rudeness. I SAID YOUR POST DIDN’T INDICATE ANYTHING PATENTLY RACIST.
And incidently…I googled “you people” and found dozens of references that had nothing to do with racism. I didn’t find one definition in either standard or slang dictionaries that indicated it was a racist remark. In fact, it doesn’t appear AT ALL in any of the sources I checked. Now before you go and get your bowels in an uproar, I’M NOT SAYING IT ISN’T USED OFTEN IN DISPARAGING WAYS, but simply saying the phrase, as you recounted in your first post, is in no way an automatic indicator of racism.
I wasn’t apologizing for racists.
I wasn’t calling your daughter oversensitive.
I never said she couldn’t tell what a racist remark was. I simply said that what YOU said didn’t sound _necessarily_ racist.
The insults you threw at me couldn’t be further from the truth; my record speaks for itself and I sleep well knowing who I am and what I stand for. If you want to continue to think I’m the big bad racist from the dark ages, there’s nothing I can say or do to make you change your mind. Have a nice life.
---
### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/208 "2006-12-07T23:18:52Z")
While I’ve sided with **Biggirl** through much of the exchange, I know you’re feeling ganged-up on and I apologize for my participation in it, **Kalhoun**. I know you to be a righteous poster too.
Just don’t want you to go away thinking you’ve made a bunch of enemies.
---
### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/209 "2006-12-07T23:27:46Z")
[QUOTE=monstro]
While I’ve sided with **Biggirl** through much of the exchange, I know you’re feeling ganged-up on and I apologize for my participation in it, **Kalhoun**. I know you to be a righteous poster too.
Just don’t want you to go away thinking you’ve made a bunch of enemies.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I appreciate that.
---
### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/210 "2006-12-07T23:41:41Z")
My apologies for coming in so late; this thread was already ~3 pages long when I first noticed it.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I never said your daughter was oversensitive and I never said she couldn’t tell the difference between racism and general rudeness. I SAID YOUR POST DIDN’T INDICATE ANYTHING PATENTLY RACIST.
I wasn’t apologizing for racists.
I wasn’t calling your daughter oversensitive.
I never said she couldn’t tell what a racist remark was. I simply said that what YOU said didn’t sound necessarily racist.
[/QUOTE]
Quite right–the words themselves were not necessarily racist. However, the way they were presented and the way they were received indicates that they _were_. You went with the words themselves, not the presentation nor the reaction they provoked, making you sound dismissive at best.
---
### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/211 "2006-12-08T00:38:33Z")
My input was not designed to upset you, **Biggirl** , and I am sorry if I have contributed to your frustration.
I don’t know what you are like in real life, but my impression from your online persona, in the two threads I’ve participated in, is that (at least where matters of race are concerned) you are extremely sensitive. If anything outside of a “you go, girl!” response is liable to cause you consternation, I think it’s better I absent myself from this thread and any future threads of yours.
---
### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/212 "2006-12-08T00:46:01Z")
I said this already in **myskepticsight** ’s Black Friday thread. Lately,\* some people have been composing their posts as if they’re writing a **Seinfeld** script. “No hugging! No learning!” When did it become mandatory for people to be nasty **to each other** in the Pit?
I’m not focused on the racism issue here. I’m focused on the presumption that **Biggirl** “had to know” that people would claim that what she posted was not the way it went down. She was already upset, and people chose to make her more so.
**DrDeth** , you blow my mind. You’re basically saying that Pit OPers are required to let people turn the thread around on them. That is becoming more widespread, but to claim that it should – nay, must – be that way, and that **Biggirl** is being a poor sport because she does not appreciate being forced into a defensive position after she came in here to vent, is disgusting.
As I also already said, the Pit is in no danger of becoming a sparkly-unicorns forum. The political threads alone will see to that. There’s no need to pile up sandbags of jerkishness against a flood of glurge that is **not** imminent.
\*And I do mean lately. It was **not** always like this.
---
### Author:  [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/213 "2006-12-08T00:46:50Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
My input was not designed to upset you, **Biggirl** , and I am sorry if I have contributed to your frustration.
I don’t know what you are like in real life, but my impression from your online persona, in the two threads I’ve participated in, is that (at least where matters of race are concerned) you are extremely sensitive. If anything outside of a “you go, girl!” response is liable to cause you consternation, I think it’s better I absent myself from this thread and any future threads of yours.
[/QUOTE]
It’s funny because a lot of black posters think I give far too much. You just caught me in two threads that really got my goat.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/214 "2006-12-08T00:51:04Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
It’s funny because a lot of black posters think I give far too much.
[/QUOTE]
Count me as one white poster who thinks you’ve been remarkably civil and good-natured throughout the hijacking of your thread. If it had been me, I would have really lost it.
---
### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/215 "2006-12-08T00:58:11Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
It’s funny because a lot of black posters think I give far too much. You just caught me in two threads that really got my goat.
[/QUOTE]
I was just about to post that out of all the black Dopers, **Biggirl** is among the _least_ sensitive. Not that that’s a bad thing. I don’t think you give “far too much”. It’s just you’re not as much of an Angry Black Doper like I’m perceived to be. And that’s definitely a good thing. 😃
---
### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/216 "2006-12-08T01:48:12Z")
Add another person who reads/hears “you people” as racist codespeak. And I **am** naive. I haven’t come in contact with a lot of the racist terms that, say, my husband has. He’s from Kentucky so he can often point out things that would go over my head (like the election commercial against Harold Ford with the white woman saying “Call me”).
I worked in a bridal shop, and I was called names that I still have never deciphered (but I bet they’re bad). Never called you people. Never insulted for being a member of any group
And there is a ton of information that is conveyed through body language and tone of voice.
I would like to think that if I had been in line behind this woman, I would have said something. But I probably wouldn’t have. That’s something for me to take away from this thread.
Also, yeah, the Dope seems overrun with arguments about how even blatant racism ain’t necessarily so. I find it puzzling. I agree that this OP isn’t about the most blatant racism ever, but when sheltered me recognizes it, it’s probably there.
---
### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/217 "2006-12-08T01:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
I haven’t come in contact with a lot of the racist terms that, say, my husband has. He’s from Kentucky so he can often point out things that would go over my head (like the election commercial against Harold Ford with the white woman saying “Call me”).
[/QUOTE]
😕
---
### Author:  [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/218 "2006-12-08T01:59:42Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
Add another person who reads/hears “you people” as racist codespeak. And I **am** naive. I haven’t come in contact with a lot of the racist terms that, say, my husband has. He’s from Kentucky so he can often point out things that would go over my head (like the election commercial against Harold Ford with the white woman saying “Call me”).
[/QUOTE]
You know, I got this but I didn’t know why it was such a big thing. The implication was that the white girl wanted to do the black politician and not the other way around.
Like when Nicole Sheridan dropped her towel in front of the football player and that black coach got mad. What, black guys don’t wanna do Nicole Sheridan? I don’t get it.
---
### Author:  [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/219 "2006-12-08T02:02:31Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
You know, I got this but I didn’t know why it was such a big thing. The implication was that the white girl wanted to do the black politician and not the other way around.
Like when Nicole Sheridan dropped her towel in front of the football player and that black coach got mad. What, black guys don’t wanna do Nicole Sheridan? I don’t get it.
[/QUOTE]
It’s double targeted. In the first place, it plays on supposed white men fears that black dudes are carrrazy for the white wimmen. And two, it paints him as a race traitor to blacks, for not staying within his own “kind”.
---
### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990/220 "2006-12-08T02:03:00Z")
[QUOTE=Rilchiam]
😕
[/QUOTE]
You didn’t hear about that one? Ford is black and I think it was the RNC who ran an ad where they talked about Ford going to a party at the Playboy mansion. At the end of the commercial, a blond woman says, “Harold, call me.”
I saw the ad and said, “That was dumb.” My husband saw the ad and said, “He’s coming for the white women.”
Some people denied that it was racial at all, but certain things do seem to be in code. I don’t know the whole code, but I’m learning, and it’s pretty sickening.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990.md?page=10)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-are-getting-better-thats-what-i-told-my-daughter/382990.md?page=12)