# Things artist say about their work you don't believe **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848 "2011-05-23T02:33:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/1 "2011-05-23T02:33:44Z")
I was listening to Jethro Tull’s “Thick As A Brick” album today and was reminded that frontman and lyricist Ian Anderson has long denied that it’s a concept album. The odd thing is that when I read [the lyrics](http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/Albums/ThickAsABrick-lyrics.html) I swear it’s a relatively straightforward song about how society and its wars harms a sensitive man, much in the vein of Pink Floyd’s “The Wall”. What things has an artist said about one of their works that make you say “I don’t believe that for a second”? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/2 "2011-05-23T02:41:19Z")
John Lennon’s contention that “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” was based on a drawing by one of his kids. It’s pretty clear it’s about an acid trip. (not to be an ass but don’t bother with a cite confirming the kid picture story) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/3 "2011-05-23T02:47:28Z")
Tolkien’s claim that his works have “no allegorical intentions …, moral, religious, or political…" Riiiiiiiight. And I’ve got a shiny new ring to sell you. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/4 "2011-05-23T02:54:39Z")
Thomas Kinkade: I am a serious artist. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/5 "2011-05-23T03:04:42Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > John Lennon’s contention that “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” was based on a drawing by one of his kids. It’s pretty clear it’s about an acid trip. (not to be an ass but don’t bother with a cite confirming the kid picture story) Hahaha I came in to say this. I was just thinking about it the other night, for no apparent reason. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/6 "2011-05-23T03:11:24Z")
George Lucas says he had the prequel trilogy planned out from the get-go. _Bullshit_. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/7 "2011-05-23T03:16:11Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > John Lennon’s contention that “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” was based on a drawing by one of his kids. It’s pretty clear it’s about an acid trip. (not to be an ass but don’t bother with a cite confirming the kid picture story) Are you saying you disbelieve John & Julian’s story, or that you think the song is about an acid trip despite the origin of its name? Because I think I can get behind the second. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/8 "2011-05-23T03:48:15Z")
Was it in _So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish_ that Douglas Adams had Arthur Dent tell Fenny a story about some stranger eating cookies out of Arthur’s cookie package at some train station or something, and Arthur defiantly eating his own cookies out of the package to show the guy up? And then, it turns out that it wasn’t Arthur’s cookie package at all, but it belonged to the stranger who didn’t say a word about Arthur eating his cookies? Douglas Adams claimed that it was a story that really happened to him. Actually, the story is an urban legend descended from the similar story of the jogger’s stolen wallet. I had respect for Douglas Adams before I heard about him claiming that. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/9 "2011-05-23T04:30:11Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > Are you saying you disbelieve John & Julian’s story, or that you think the song is about an acid trip despite the origin of its name? Because I think I can get behind the second. I rather doubt the picture would be based on Julian’s acid trip. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/10 "2011-05-23T06:51:50Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > Are you saying you disbelieve John & Julian’s story, or that you think the song is about an acid trip despite the origin of its name? Because I think I can get behind the second. I also came in to cite this one, and I’ve always believed Lennon was waiting for his old age to finally say “Of _course_ it was about LSD, who could possibly believe that bullshit I’ve been saying for all these years?” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/11 "2011-05-23T06:56:16Z")
I always kind of figured that Julian did have a drawing he called “Lucy in the sky with diamonds,” and Lennon took the title, and wrote a song about LSD using that phrase as a title. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/12 "2011-05-23T07:01:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I always kind of figured that Julian did have a drawing he called “Lucy in the sky with diamonds,” and Lennon took the title, and wrote a song about LSD using that phrase as a title. That’s sound plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/13 "2011-05-23T07:16:04Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Tolkien’s claim that his works have “no allegorical intentions …, moral, religious, or political…" Riiiiiiiight. And I’ve got a shiny new ring to sell you. This one I believe. Tolkien was using a much more rigid definition for “allegory” then is common today. Nowadays, people use the term to mean, “kind of metaphorical.” In Tolkien’s day, an allegory was as story in which every element had a one-to-one correspondence with some facet of a moral lesson the artist was attempting to communicate, and putting across that lesson was the primary purpose of the work. I don’t think Tolkien ever denied that aspects of his story were inspired or influenced by his own experiences in WWI, or the events of WWII as he was writing it, but that’s not the same thing as a proper allegory. Now, when he said _Leaf by Niggle_ wasn’t an allegory, _that_ was a load of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/14 "2011-05-23T08:08:07Z")
I listened to a documentary on Radio 1 in the '90s in which Paul McCartney explained to the interviewer that nope, when Wings released _Mary Had A Little Lamb_ as a follow up to \*Give Ireland Back to the Irish \* (which had been banned by the BBC) that it had been NO WAY a commentary on the banning. Paul went on about how it was just a cute tune that happened to be in the form of a nursery rhyme. Suuuure. Own it, Paul - it was one of pop music’s cleverer responses to a radio banning. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/15 "2011-05-23T15:10:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This one I believe. Tolkien was using a much more rigid definition for “allegory” then is common today. Nowadays, people use the term to mean, “kind of metaphorical.” In Tolkien’s day, an allegory was as story in which every element had a one-to-one correspondence with some facet of a moral lesson the artist was attempting to communicate, and putting across that lesson was the primary purpose of the work. I don’t think Tolkien ever denied that aspects of his story were inspired or influenced by his own experiences in WWI, or the events of WWII as he was writing it, but that’s not the same thing as a proper allegory. > > Now, when he said _Leaf by Niggle_ wasn’t an allegory, _that_ was a load of crap. In Tolkien’s day, and still today if you happen to be talking to a professor of Middle English at Oxford, an allegory is a story where the characters are direct representations of abstract concepts. By saying that \*Lord of the Rings \*“is not an allegory”, Tolkien meant that Frodo did not represent Perseverance, Merry did not represent Adolescence, and Saruman did not represent Fear of Cheese–they were characters reacting to events in a reasonably realistic fashion. I have not read \*Leaf by Niggle \*recently enough to know if there was actually an allegory there, or simply a metaphorical representation of life in a totalitarian state. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/16 "2011-05-23T16:29:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I have not read Leaf by Niggle recently enough to know if there was actually an allegory there, or simply a metaphorical representation of life in a totalitarian state. There was no state presence at all in “Niggle”. You must be getting it mixed up with some other story. And even by Tolkien’s strict definition of “allegory”, it’s still clearly allegorical (certainly more so than Lewis’s works, which Tolkien complained about as too allegorical). Me, I’m going to nominate Heinlein’s _Starship Troopers_. Heinlein claimed in letters written years later that the military was not the only path to citizenship in the book; that any sort of civic service (delivering mail, say) would also qualify. But that’s flatly contradicted by the book: If you couldn’t cut it in the infantry, then there was nothing left but testing experimental spacesuits on Titan, or other creative ways of committing suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/17 "2011-05-23T16:36:19Z")
I serious doubt Jackson Pollock and Andy Warhol’s emotional sincerity. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/18 "2011-05-23T16:49:22Z")
I so don’t think that song is about me. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/19 "2011-05-23T16:56:19Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Was it in _So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish_ that Douglas Adams had Arthur Dent tell Fenny a story about some stranger eating cookies out of Arthur’s cookie package at some train station or something, and Arthur defiantly eating his own cookies out of the package to show the guy up? And then, it turns out that it wasn’t Arthur’s cookie package at all, but it belonged to the stranger who didn’t say a word about Arthur eating his cookies? > > Douglas Adams claimed that it was a story that really happened to him. > > Actually, the story is an urban legend descended from the similar story of the jogger’s stolen wallet. > > I had respect for Douglas Adams before I heard about him claiming that. I remember seeing Adams tell this story, I think on _Late Night with David Letterman_, as something that happened to him. [Snopes has a page](http://www.snopes.com/crime/safety/cookies.asp) on this sort of incident, which notes that “His claim is doubted by many who point out the self-same tale was around years prior to that, but it is not impossible for events in real life to mimic those of lore. (Indeed, the actual folkloric term for such an event is **ostension**.) In any case, whether the incident happened to him or not, it is clear the legend did not begin with him.” ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/20 "2011-05-23T17:29:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I always kind of figured that Julian did have a drawing he called “Lucy in the sky with diamonds,” and Lennon took the title, and wrote a song about LSD using that phrase as a title. I thought **etv78** didn’t want links because he was aware of it, but yes, [the picture in question and Lucy were real](http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/811261/beatles-muse-lucy-vodden-dies). If you look at it, it hardly explains the whole song, and I think it likely it was about a drug trip. But I happen to think the “L-S-D” was coincidental. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848.md?page=2)