# Things artist say about their work you don't believe **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848 "2011-05-23T02:33:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/81 "2011-05-25T18:27:45Z")
very basic: Every actor or director flogging a movie, when asked what it was like to work with so-and-so, inevitably insists everyone was just fabulous, totally professional, a joy to work with, and never was such fun had on a movie/TV set. You have to wait until they’re 80 and write a scandalous autobiography to get the real story! ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/82 "2011-05-25T18:59:21Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Good point. I’m sort of on an [ongoing dystopian fiction kick](http://epicdystopia.blogspot.com/), so the dystopia vs. apocalypse issue comes up pretty often. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/83 "2011-05-25T19:28:43Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I’m not saying you have to believe him, but Bob was quite capable of writing straightforward songs about his divorce. “Sarah” on the \*\*\*Desire \*\*\*album clearly WAS about his divorce. There was nothing abstract or symbolic to the song at all, just an unadorned statement of his heartbreak and his memories of good times his family had shared. > > So, if Dylan claims that an abstract song ISN’T about Sarah, he may be lying. But he might just tell you, “Hey man, when I want to write songs about Sarah, I\*\* write songs about Sarah!”\*\* Of course these are abstract songs, but who could deny that the main theme of the album was a crumbling relationship? And who went through a crumbling relationship when “Blood on the Tracks” was recorded? You must at least grant that the album must have been heavily inspired by Dylan’s personal life. Of course, “Desire” picks up some threads from “Blood” (because this was the time when their marriage finally came to an end), but presents them in another fashion. That’s Dylan. And he has always been reluctant to explain his songs, so I understand his denial, and I don’t chide him for that. An artist isn’t obliged to explain his work. But I still don’t buy it. P.S.: I have a vague memory that I even sometimes read that Dylan claimed that “Sara” also wasn’t about his wife. I possibly misremember, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/84 "2011-05-25T19:48:39Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I’m not sure I agree, since not all dystopian fiction is about dystopias that occur due to zombies, nuclear armageddon, or space wars. I don’t know that I’d think a book about the decline of civilization due to people just being normal rat-bastards is science fiction. I suppose it depends on if you consider Alternate History a genre of Science Fiction. Some people prefer a more generic label of _Speculative Fiction_ to cover ideas like Alternate History, Distopia, etc, that are not premised upon scientific/technology developments but offer alternative versions of the past or projections into the future. > [@Lemur866](#): > > But the reason there aren’t any cooks or doctors in the MI is that those support functions are filled by navy personnel. Everyone drops in the MI, but the MI is only a small fraction of the service. You can have civilian cooks and doctors and file clerks back on Earth, but you don’t have them on navy ships. So? They’re Navy personnel, subject to potential battle conditions. They’re every bit as essential to a Navy as the bosun, the navigator, or the gunnery sargeant (or whatever). > [@](#): > > So you’re not going to go into the service and end up an elementary school teacher, or even a firefighter. But you could end up teaching, the teachers at Johnny’s Officer Candidate School were all active duty MI, or you could end up a firefighter on a Navy ship or government outpost. Right, but the key thing is that first and foremost these jobs are military jobs held by active military officers. And while it’s not explicitly clear for other branches of the military, for the MI it is. The teachers at both Johnny’s training schools are not only active officers, but have seen active duty, and are often on rotation as a teacher _because_ they are so good at combat. Plus, at OCS a lot of the trainer positions are filled by injured officers that cannot do active combat and qualify for disability retirement with full benefits, but remain active duty so that they can teach and let more able-bodied soldiers stay in the field. It’s true, being a cook at an Army base on some government outpost might usually be fairly unrisky at a state of peace. The requirement is not that they must put themselves in a 50:50 situation or have some other definite risk of death in order to qualify for citizenship. But they have to join the military, go through military training, and serve time in a position that at least nominally has the risk of combat activities associated with it. Because war could pop up at any time. And if they’re not fit for combat, they are given some equally tedious, difficult, and tiring if not dangerous job. He explains at one point that many of the veterans spent their time in conditions of peace and were not subject to the dangers of war. So the military had to dream up all sorts of creative ways to harry and stress and wear out and otherwise make nearly unbearable their conditions. Delivering mail in contemporary Iowa (or whereever) wouldn’t cut it, whatever Heinlein said at a later date. Hell, the merchant marine didn’t qualify (it’s mentioned in the book as a sore point). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/85 "2011-05-25T21:00:01Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Using that definition, every novel is science fiction because they’re all written in the context of a society. > > I’m not sure I agree, since not all dystopian fiction is about dystopias that occur due to zombies, nuclear armageddon, or space wars. I don’t know that I’d think a book about the decline of civilization due to people just being normal rat-bastards is science fiction. However, according to Offred, Gilead came about as a response to declining birth rates brought on by environmental collapse, with large sections of the N. American continent being referred to as, IIRC, “wastelands”. It did not come about merely by people being “rat bastards”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/86 "2011-05-25T21:13:53Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Using that definition, every novel is science fiction because they’re all written in the context of a society. That’s like saying every novel is science fiction, because they all have technology in them. Which pretty clearly wasn’t my point. Science fiction is when you take a concept or trend in a field of science, and extrapolate it into the future. The field in question could be electronics, or physics. Or it could be sociology. Hell, the science doesn’t even necessarily have to advance - a novel about how, in future, we’ll be living like cavemen would also be science fiction. _A Handmaid’s Tale_ works as science fiction because it’s taking several different sociological and environmental trends and extrapolating them forward to an imagined end result, specifically, increasing pollution, the effects of chemical additives on human reproduction, and the rising tide of far-right religiosity. ---
**Author:** ![what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a5b964/32.png) [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/what_do_I_type_here)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/87 "2011-05-25T23:13:41Z")
I’m sure most of you know this, HAL 9000’s initials are “IBM” plus one. Arthur C. Clarke has maintained that this is a cooincidence. Riiiight ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/88 "2011-05-25T23:57:34Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > Paul McCartney says that [“C Moon”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Moon) is about being the opposite of L7; i.e., not square; i.e., cool. Looking through Wikipedia at Sir Paul’s songs, this bit I don’t believe is that the writing credits are shared by Paul and Linda. Yeah, sure Paul, you and Linda both worked on all those songs together. At least with Lennon/McCartney, even though most of their songs were not collaborations, they both contributed significantly to their collective output. I find it hard to believe that the same can be said for McCartney/McCartney. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/89 "2011-05-26T00:09:05Z")
> [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](#): > > I’m sure most of you know this, HAL 9000’s initials are “IBM” plus one. Arthur C. Clarke has maintained that this is a cooincidence. > > Riiiight Why don’t you believe that this is a coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/90 "2011-05-26T00:43:02Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > Looking through Wikipedia at Sir Paul’s songs, this bit I don’t believe is that the writing credits are shared by Paul and Linda. Yeah, sure Paul, you and Linda both worked on all those songs together. At least with Lennon/McCartney, even though most of their songs were not collaborations, they both contributed significantly to their collective output. I find it hard to believe that the same can be said for McCartney/McCartney. This may have been done for very practical reasons. Linda didn’t have the contractual entanglements siphoning off her share of the royalties that Paul had. By splitting the credit, they were able to assign Linda’s half of the publishing rights to their own MPL Communications publishing company. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/91 "2011-05-26T03:31:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Another vote for not believing Bradbury. _Fahrenheit 451_ was written in 1950. We’re supposed to believe that Bradbury’s main point was that television was taking over the media? > > What is a lot more believable is that decades later, when Ray Bradbury and everyone else in the world saw how dominant television had become, Bradbury convinced himself that he had predicted all of this back in 1950. Yeah, as he has aged Bradbury has developed some sort of reaction against TV. In the postscript to the recent edition of _Something Wicked This Way Comes_ he writes about how he developed the mood for the novel when walking around outside one evening for hours without seeing anyone. Everyone was inside wasting their lives watching TV instead of being out living life, he claimed. It is just a really weird comment for a story that has nothing whatsoever to do with TV, coming from an author who himself wrote and hosted a TV show. Earlier this year I also showed a documentary in my class called “Ray Bradbury, an Author and his Life” (or something like that), and he went into an anti-TV rant for bit in that film too. Maybe he’s pissed that the old sci-fi serials that were his bread and butter for 20 years have disappeared forever. (Another weird thing from the documentary that struck me were the Coors Banquet Beer cans, the yellow tall boys, that were all over Bradbury’s house. It just seemed funny somehow.) ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/92 "2011-05-26T05:04:12Z")
Malcolm McDowell, for awhile at least, insisted that he thought Caligula was going to be high art until the director and producer mangled it in post-production. Y’all, there is a scene in this movie where McDowell fists another dude. There is no way he didn’t know it was porn the moment he showed up on set. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/93 "2011-05-26T17:58:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Y’all, there is a scene in this movie where McDowell fists another dude. There is no way he didn’t know it was porn the moment he showed up on set. Wasn’t that done via cuts and a “hand double”, though? At least, that’s what I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/94 "2011-05-26T20:59:31Z")
> [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](#): > > Yeah, as he has aged Bradbury has developed some sort of reaction against TV. In the postscript to the recent edition of _Something Wicked This Way Comes_ he writes about how he developed the mood for the novel when walking around outside one evening for hours without seeing anyone. Everyone was inside wasting their lives watching TV instead of being out living life, he claimed. And that’s the kind of claim that makes Bradbury seem unbelievable. There were only eight million televisions in the country in 1950. Television was growing (there had only been one million televisions in 1948) but there were 150,697,361 Americans counted in the 1950 census - television was still a relatively small fad. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/95 "2011-05-27T02:12:55Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > This may have been done for very practical reasons. Linda didn’t have the contractual entanglements siphoning off her share of the royalties that Paul had. By splitting the credit, they were able to assign Linda’s half of the publishing rights to their own MPL Communications publishing company. Good point. Hadn’t thought of that. ---
**Author:** ![what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a5b964/32.png) [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/what_do_I_type_here)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/96 "2011-05-27T17:33:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Why don’t you believe that this is a coincidence? Actually I am just bummed that I didn’t figure it out before everyone else. But you’re right, it probably is a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/97 "2011-05-27T17:55:01Z")
The Cloverfield monster was not a confused baby looking for his mommy. Nor was he killed by the bombs at the end of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/98 "2011-05-28T05:09:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > George Lucas says he had the prequel trilogy planned out from the get-go. _Bullshit_. He’s NEVER given a consistent answer of # of movies he wanted in the \*Star Wars \*saga. As low as 3, as high as 9 have been his answers. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/99 "2011-05-28T06:28:26Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Never even heard of it before. Looked at lyrics. WTF? > > It does sound a bit like he is saying “semen” with an odd inflection. But how do you know that it’s an either/or? Good point. It could be about _ **both** _ being cool and another, errr, _fundamental_ topic. I think it’s instructive to check out the back of his T-shirt (which rocks!) in the video. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848/100 "2011-05-28T07:36:10Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I serious doubt Jackson Pollock and Andy Warhol’s emotional sincerity. I’m not an expert on Warhol but in every interview with him I’ve seen, he’s denied emotional sincerity. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-artist-say-about-their-work-you-dont-believe/582848.md?page=6)