# Things done to products to meet public expectations **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089 "2011-06-02T15:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/81 "2011-06-05T16:51:45Z")
In the grocery store, meat would last a lot longer if it was wrapped in a type of plastic that was impermeable to oxygen. But the meat would look purple/brown, and no one would buy it. Consumers want meat that looks bright red, so the plastic used to wrap meat is somewhat permeable to oxygen. The downside is that the meat doesn’t last as long, obviously. If we could convince consumers that meat doesn’t have to be bright red, stores could wrap the meat in a type of plastic that was impermeable to oxygen, thereby increasing the shelf life and saving a lot of money and energy in the process. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/82 "2011-06-05T17:12:02Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > Christmas trees are painted to give them a nice green color before harvest. Been there, done that. It is more of a dye. The boss didn’t accept my suggestion that instead of painting them, charge a premium for the ‘‘golden’’ Scotch Pines. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/83 "2011-06-05T19:11:41Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Been there, done that. It is more of a dye. > > The boss didn’t accept my suggestion that instead of painting them, charge a premium for the ‘‘golden’’ Scotch Pines. Wouldn’t this depend on region or type of tree being grown? There are a _lot_ of tree farms in the Eastern Townships, and I have a hard time believing that all those trees are dyed, but then again, I’ve never worked there. I think the most common one is the balsam fir, and they tend to grow for years before harvest and they are green throughout that time. How do the dyes work? Through irrigation systems? Topical? The tree farm my family goes to every year to cut their own tree at doesn’t really seem to have all that much equipment, but I don’t know what to look for! Another thing that exists pretty much only because the public expects it: aircraft passenger windows. Obviously the cockpit windows are necessary, but there is no real reason to have passenger windows other than because passengers expect them to be there (for some reason, people don’t seem to like being in a windowless cylinder for hours on end?) Windows cause stress concentrations and weaknesses in the fuselage, requiring more stringers/frames to distribute forces thereby increasing the weight of the aircraft and raising costs. For safety reasons, you’d probably only need one or two, to allow an inspection of the engines/wings in the event of fire or to ensure a safe evacuation from one side of the plane. Window cutouts are an even greater challenge in the shift to composite fuselages; because composite materials are anisotropic, cutting a hole in a panel doesn’t simply mean the stresses “flow” around the hole the way it would in an isotropic material like aluminum. So again, more material, more weight and less efficient design has to be used in order to accommodate the windows. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/84 "2011-06-05T19:20:19Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > A few years ago, food companies were producing tomato ketchup(catsup?) in colors such as blue or green instead of the traditional red. I didn’t think much of it and apparently no one else did either. I only see red ketchup for sale nowadays. One of my friends in high school had purple ketchup in the fridge (his mom bought it because of novelty), and he would make me use it while we were at the house. Not because it was the only thing there, but so that we’d get rid of it faster. Not much weirder than purple ketchup on a hot dog, as purple tomatoes do not make that color ketchup. > [@WhyNot](#): > > Y’know, I’ve heard (and repeated) before that oranges aren’t really orange on the exterior, that they were named for the color of the interior, and that they’re colored before they hit market. And yet…when I google images of orange tree, [there are an awful lot of orange oranges still on the tree](http://www.google.com/search?q=orange+tree&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Cx1&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1252&bih=548&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8ZTpTZ-MHOHf0QHx5d20AQ&ved=0CEoQsAQ). So what’s up with that? Oranges that grow on trees in yards in my part of Florida are not uniformly orange, but tend to have blemishes and green spots [like this tree](http://www.flickr.com/photos/alasam/3296566636/). Completely uniformly orange citrus looks very strange to me as a Floridian, but I can accept limes and lemons that are fairly uniformly yellow or green as “normal”. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/85 "2011-06-05T19:31:25Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Wouldn’t this depend on region or type of tree being grown? There are a _lot_ of tree farms in the Eastern Townships, and I have a hard time believing that all those trees are dyed, but then again, I’ve never worked there. I think the most common one is the balsam fir, and they tend to grow for years before harvest and they are green throughout that time. How do the dyes work? Through irrigation systems? Topical? The tree farm my family goes to every year to cut their own tree at doesn’t really seem to have all that much equipment, but I don’t know what to look for! Scotch and white pine get the dye sprayed on them. So do Douglas Firs, but not Frasier firs. I am not sure about the Balsams. The equipment is fairly simple the same sprayer and tanks used for other materials, insecticides, etc. Look at the bark. It adsorbs the dye better. It will be almost black if the tree has been sprayed. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/86 "2011-06-05T19:43:59Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > [That was a problem talked about when the Prius came out.](http://www.nfb.org/nfb/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=150) Related to that, there is a model of anesthesia machine made by Draeger that, due to it’s design, doesn’t have that stereotypical “Darth Vader” breathing sounds like other anesthesia machines and vents have. Anesthesiologists were complaining that the machine was broken because they couldn’t hear it, so they redesigned it and added a small circuit board and speaker to emulate that sound in time with the settings on the machine. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/87 "2011-06-05T20:03:24Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Scotch and white pine get the dye sprayed on them. So do Douglas Firs, but not Frasier firs. I am not sure about the Balsams. The equipment is fairly simple the same sprayer and tanks used for other materials, insecticides, etc. Look at the bark. It adsorbs the dye better. It will be almost black if the tree has been sprayed. Interesting. I’ll try and remember this and look at the trees next Christmas. I suspect that the local trees aren’t being dyed, since I don’t ever recall a tree with “almost black” bark, but it’s not something I was looking for in the past! Thanks for the explanation! ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/88 "2011-06-06T12:47:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > In the grocery store, meat would last a lot longer if it was wrapped in a type of plastic that was impermeable to oxygen. But the meat would look purple/brown, and no one would buy it. Consumers want meat that looks bright red, so the plastic used to wrap meat is somewhat permeable to oxygen. The downside is that the meat doesn’t last as long, obviously. > > If we could convince consumers that meat doesn’t have to be bright red, stores could wrap the meat in a type of plastic that was impermeable to oxygen, thereby increasing the shelf life and saving a lot of money and energy in the process. I believe much meat sold these days is in packaging that seals the product in an atmosphere of pure carbon dioxide, which maintains that bright-red color. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/89 "2011-06-06T13:34:38Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > I also heard car doors are expected to sound a certain way when they slam, which prevents them from being made of composites. That is more psychological marketing: only recently have car makers started to employ a guy who tests how a car door being closed sounds like and fiddles with it to make it sound better. Along with another guy whose job is to sniff the new car and fiddle with the smell to make it more manipulative. ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/90 "2011-06-06T13:46:02Z")
> [@nashiitashii](#): > > One of my friends in high school had purple ketchup in the fridge (his mom bought it because of novelty), and he would make me use it while we were at the house. Not because it was the only thing there, but so that we’d get rid of it faster. Not much weirder than purple ketchup on a hot dog, as purple tomatoes do not make that color ketchup. Saw _green_ ketchup on sale in the UK supermarkets about 5 years ago, not seen it recently. Tried some and it was really hard to overcome the powerful urge to push the food away. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/91 "2011-06-06T13:49:17Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Soaps, detergents and other cleaners have foaming agents added because people think foam=clean, but it doesn’t do anything. Is that the real reason, or is it also practicality? I remember when the dishwashing soaps came out in concentrated form to save waste, but they found out that people had problems correctly dosing small amounts (“just one drop”), so they stopped that. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/92 "2011-06-06T13:57:52Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > I guess the [“close doors” button](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/595/do-close-door-buttons-on-elevators-ever-actually-work) in [elevators](http://gizmodo.com/380741/things-you-dont-know-about-modern-elevators) sort of counts, too. Not for all elevators. Some elevators are specially built to work even in a fire\* to allow handicapped people to evacuate, and need a closed door button to overcome smoke blocking the light sensor. Other elevators might be specially wired for purposes of the employees first, e.g. our elevator has ground floor as preference over other floors, and opens a few seconds longer on the ground floor (so the employees can enter with their carts) than on the other floors (where the normal users just get in). \*Obviously not in a flaming inferno, but even just a few minutes until the fire gets serious can be a help. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/93 "2011-06-06T14:05:31Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Beer in a glass bottle vs. a plastic bottle. > > Beer is actually kept colder longer in a plastic bottle. Plastic is a better insulator than glass. But consumers, especially in the US, resist beer being sold in plastic bottles, because of perception. The glass bottle feels colder on the lips of the drinker than a plastic bottle, so the drinker perceives that the glass bottle keeps the beer colder longer, which is false. Since when is plastic a better insulator than glass? Huh? Got a cite for that? Are you using special plastic instead of PET or is the plastic unusually thick? Because I’ve never seen plastic that insulated better than a solid glass bottle. The other aspect is that early throw-away plastic bottles were made from a type of plastic that leached chemicals into the drink (esp. if the drink contained acid, which most do - at least carbonic acid for the bubbles). So many people have problems trusting plastic bottle for health safety. > [@](#): > > Bottlers will not switch to the plastic bottle even though, the plastic bottle costs the same to produce as glass. Results in less breakage and loss and lower distribution costs due to less weight. Depends on the circumstances. Usually bottlers switch to plastic for sodas etc. because it’s cheaper in production, transport and less breakage, and because customers also prefer less weight and breakage. But if the glass bottles have an established re-use system and the plastic bottles are throwaway, the calculation looks different. It also depends on how far the bottles are transported. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/94 "2011-06-06T14:20:34Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I once worked for a company that made telephone switching equipment, and desk-top business phones. There was a steel weight added to the handset, to make it “feel” like a quality product, the theory being that light handsets felt cheap. > > If you’re at work right now, pick up your phone handset. It should weigh almost nothing, but I’ll bet it feels nice and solid and heavy, right? Which sucks for the heavy telephone user, who gets crampy hands and thus needs to buy a headset. Making extra money for a different manufacturer! ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/95 "2011-06-06T14:30:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The exhaust system of a modern car could be made to be almost silent. For sedate sedans it normally is. For sportier cars they design them to make a noise like the muscle cars of the 60s. In a docu about modern electric cars they said how the first prototypes were almost completly silent - but then they noticed during test-drives that the pedestrians were used to listenting to the engine noise of cars and not looking enough for silent cars, so they were brainstorming on what sound would be best to add to make the electric car hearable enough to alert pedestrians. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/96 "2011-06-06T14:31:55Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > The most divine frozen food ever, mac and cheese and chicken chunks and bacon (by stouffers, since discontinued :() had a “serving suggestion” picture on the front of the box that featured tiny chunks of tomatoes. A couple years after I started eating them, they started including the chunks of tomatoes because I guess people kept complaining that they weren’t in there. To me it would make sense to include them because I don’t always have tomatoes lying around in a single household, and if I buy a ready-made dinner, everything necessary should be inside, otherwise, I buy single ingredients. Actually, that was a big factor, I think, for the success of Miracoli: you got pasta and parmesan and sauce and herbs all in one package back when italian food was new, so the normal housewife wouldn’t have parmesan or herbs in the kitchen already. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/97 "2011-06-06T14:34:34Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Have none of you ever been to a sports stadium in your lives? There _certainly_ is beer sold in plastic bottles. Could that be a mandate by the stadium owner/ the police/ the city to avoid injuries from thrown glass bottles / fans using glass bottles to bash others? After all, stadiums now mostly forbid bringing any bottle inside (as well as other potentially dangerous objects). ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/98 "2011-06-06T14:50:31Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Since when is plastic a better insulator than glass? Huh? Got a cite for that? Since the invention of plastics? The [thermal conductivities](http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)of plastics are pretty much always lower than those of glass; less heat conducted means better insulation. Glass also has lower [heat capacities](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity), meaning less energy is needed to raise it’s temperature one degree - also making plastics better insulators. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/99 "2011-06-06T14:58:24Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > I believe much meat sold these days is in packaging that seals the product in an atmosphere of pure carbon dioxide, which maintains that bright-red color. Some meat packagers used to seal them with carbon _monoxide_, because CO bonds to myoglobin much more strongly than oxygen, so it would keep the color brighter, longer. But I don’t think that’s the case anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/100 "2011-06-06T15:02:53Z")
I recall reading a book by Jerry Della Femina called “From Those Wonderful Folks Who Gave You Pearl Harbor” some years ago. It is a book about the advertising industry. He told a story about (I think) Johnson & Johnson who spent a fortune developing an “ouchless” antiseptic salve for cuts. However, the product bombed, because the public equated stinging with “it’s working”. So they ended up putting a few drops of alcohol in the mixture to make the “ouchless” salve cause a tiny stinging sensation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089.md?page=6)